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CRCN Message on the Steward Occupation Town Hall (Steward trade elimination)

Jarnhamar

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We carefully considered options to continue the Steward occupation, and many of our Stewards were a part of those discussions

Many stewards were a part of those discussions. Except for the bunch of stewards we read about up thread that were completely blind sided by the announcement right after they had a big town hall where they were fed a bunch of BS.

I bet the the ones they did consult with were at the end of their career and had their eyes on a nice buy out package.
 

SeaKingTacco

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Many stewards were a part of those discussions. Except for the bunch of stewards we read about up thread that were completely blind sided by the announcement right after they had a big town hall where they were fed a bunch of BS.

I bet the the ones they did consult with were at the end of their career and had their eyes on a nice buy out package.
I doubt there will be a buyout.
 

Furniture

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If they thought retention was bad before, curious how making additional people do scullery and other roles the stewards do full time as a primary job instead of actual employment in their trade is supposed to help.
Perhaps we could hire more cooks, to do the cook stuff... Keeping a kinda-sorta cook/server/cleaner occupation around makes no sense.

Many stewards were a part of those discussions. Except for the bunch of stewards we read about up thread that were completely blind sided by the announcement right after they had a big town hall where they were fed a bunch of BS.

I bet the the ones they did consult with were at the end of their career and had their eyes on a nice buy out package.
If any steward was caught off-guard by this, it was by choice. Ten years ago when I first started sailing there was already talk about the trade disappearing, so much so that they were pushing all stewards to be essentially TCCC as a justification for the continued existence of the trade.
 

Navy_Pete

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Ya the MARTECH shemozzle... I get that. Lots of dissatisfiers there. But I don't see the coloration with the elimination of the Steward trade.

Here is "a" why from the very first post in this thread:



There will be learning period for the trades with new responsibilities, but I'm not sure any beginning failures will equate to a "shitshow".

I appreciate your position and I appreciate your counter to my support for the elimination of the trade. And I hope you don't get out, because you seem passionate about the safety of our sailors and we need that.
Yes, but applying what works on the non-combatant AOPs onto different classes that aren't designed or set up for that, have a different CONOPS and 250 crew instead of 50+ detachments is inherently stupid if they don't take the context into account, which they don't seem to.

The CPFs are planned to be in plcae until late 2040s, and the CSC is using the same basic crewing concept (with the same kind of space limitations and throughput requirements).

QoL is supposed to be a big deal now, to the point where it overrides safety/common sense, so not sure how converting full time jobs to a temp position and expecting people to do departmental work on top of that is an improvement.

It would have been a lot easier to scale back on the number of billets but keep filling them with the existing stewards, while starting to roll back on the shore positions. Transferring the ship jobs to other trades will just make other yellow/red trades more distressed.

This seems a lot less like a well thought out, logical decision then someone with an axe to grind campaigning to get rid of a trade they don't like, and supported by greasy bastards hoping to transition out of a uniformed job into a better paying civvy job as a mess manager ashore.

It'll happen anyway, and the RCN may have to do the same as the Martech trade and wait until the people in the decision retired to try and make something that actually works again, but will take us 10 years to get a structures specialization back in place. In the interim it's resulting in real capability shortfalls in the fleet right now.
 

Halifax Tar

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It'll happen anyway, and the RCN may have to do the same as the Martech trade and wait until the people in the decision retired to try and make something that actually works again, but will take us 10 years to get a structures specialization back in place. In the interim it's resulting in real capability shortfalls in the fleet right now.

The RCN tried that with their attempt at creating the Cook + Steward = Food Service trade. And it didn't succeed.

Yes, but applying what works on the non-combatant AOPs onto different classes that aren't designed or set up for that, have a different CONOPS and 250 crew instead of 50+ detachments is inherently stupid if they don't take the context into account, which they don't seem to.

The CPFs are planned to be in plcae until late 2040s, and the CSC is using the same basic crewing concept (with the same kind of space limitations and throughput requirements).

QoL is supposed to be a big deal now, to the point where it overrides safety/common sense, so not sure how converting full time jobs to a temp position and expecting people to do departmental work on top of that is an improvement.

It would have been a lot easier to scale back on the number of billets but keep filling them with the existing stewards, while starting to roll back on the shore positions. Transferring the ship jobs to other trades will just make other yellow/red trades more distressed.

This seems a lot less like a well thought out, logical decision then someone with an axe to grind campaigning to get rid of a trade they don't like, and supported by greasy bastards hoping to transition out of a uniformed job into a better paying civvy job as a mess manager ashore.

It'll happen anyway, and the RCN may have to do the same as the Martech trade and wait until the people in the decision retired to try and make something that actually works again, but will take us 10 years to get a structures specialization back in place. In the interim it's resulting in real capability shortfalls in the fleet right now.

Fair point. And I appreciate your POV.

Perhaps we could hire more cooks, to do the cook stuff... Keeping a kinda-sorta cook/server/cleaner occupation around makes no sense.

If any steward was caught off-guard by this, it was by choice. Ten years ago when I first started sailing there was already talk about the trade disappearing, so much so that they were pushing all stewards to be essentially TCCC as a justification for the continued existence of the trade.

Think About It GIF by Identity
 

Jarnhamar

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I think it was probably more a matter of individuals in a state of denial.
Possible, or I didn't understand the context.

It was HBs brothers spouse (thought I read it somewhere else)

Talked to my Brother's spouse last night.

She is a Steward. They were caught completely offguard by this and were very surprised. Especially because they had just had an occupation meeting about all the changes they were going to be making to the trade and what the future of the trade looked like.

They said they asked about buyouts and severance and the questions were danced around. It still sounds like there was some sort of future for the trade spoken about.
 

Halifax Tar

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Possible, or I didn't understand the context.

It was HBs brothers spouse (thought I read it somewhere else)



They said they asked about buyouts and severance and the questions were danced around. It still sounds like there was some sort of future for the trade spoken about.

I will repeat what's been said earlier, anyone caught off guard by this wasn't paying attention. This has been coming for a long time. Attempts to save the trade were the emphasis on FA/TCCC and the RCN attempt at its own food service trade. The first is coursing that anyone can do and the other was very soundly squashed.

CRCN can't speak on buyouts and severance. That will come from other sources. Again, CRNC is being open and transparent. I can appreciate that.

Better to get it out there now and let people plan and make thoughtful decisions than to drop it 6 months or less prior.
 

Jarnhamar

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I will repeat what's been said earlier, anyone caught off guard by this wasn't paying attention.
Still slimey the navy coc alledgely led some stewards on to believe there was a future in the trade for some of them.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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You mean amalgamating 3 distinct and very different trades with unique skill sets which take years to become proficient in was a bad idea? By time anyone gains the necessary skills to be effective in electrical, millwrighting, basic machining, welding, basic carpentry, and plumbing they basically are at the age to retire.

Maybe they will take the Stewards and put them there, I mean whats the worse that could happen... (It's a joke, hopefully).

I just remember being forced to do scullery and laundry, and hating my existence the whole time doing it. I didn’t sign up to scrap rotten fruit off the floor of the food storage areas, clean up coffee some good for nothing POs allowed to spill into the plates and cups below and failed to tell anyone (which hint sloshes back and forth dirtying everything in there). Getting screamed at because you can’t possibly keep up on the nights when your by yourself and everyone is still up due to workups (i.e. work of 4 people during the day being managed by 1 during the night). Having no supper/lunch because the midnight supper you would eat for the nights was eaten by all the people not sleeping due to workups and by time you get to the meal line its gone (especially if it was a good supper earlier).

I remember one PO going ‘I don’t understand why you hate this so much we used to love it’. To which I responded clearly he had never done this sober.

The point being potentially throwing extra responsibilities on people who likely don’t want those responsibilities has consequences. I hated doing tasks that I didn’t really see as related to my trade. Especially as I didn’t see those jobs I would consider a punishment fairly distributed amongst the crew or trades. At least the Stewards knew what to expect and wanted to do it.
Tell me about it! Worst thing about the Navy was having the Public Affairs Representative job thrust onto me as a secondary duty. It became all encompassing and detracted significantly from my training.

Then again, a lot of things about the Navy are stupid, which is why I am happy I no longer answer to my former idiotic overlords 😎

I'm only starting to realize how much of a toxic environment it truly was.
Many stewards were a part of those discussions. Except for the bunch of stewards we read about up thread that were completely blind sided by the announcement right after they had a big town hall where they were fed a bunch of BS.

I bet the the ones they did consult with were at the end of their career and had their eyes on a nice buy out package.
I don't think any Stewards were part of the discussions, none that I knew saw it coming and I am close with a bunch of them.
Possible, or I didn't understand the context.

It was HBs brothers spouse (thought I read it somewhere else)



They said they asked about buyouts and severance and the questions were danced around. It still sounds like there was some sort of future for the trade spoken about.
Can confirm. Had a town hall weeks before the announcement where all the Jr Stewards were told all the things they would be doing with the trade.

Then a few weeks later, this dropped.
 

OldSolduer

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I’ve thought about this and I think Stewards served a useful purpose. So why is it being canned?
Maybe because the appearance of a ship’s Captain having a servant? Or the wardroom?
 

Old Sweat

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I echo Old Soldier's reservations? How does this move enhance operational effectiveness, aka the ability to fight and win?
 

Halifax Tar

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There is "a" why in the very first post in this thread.

Giving three years warning on the elimination of a trade is a pretty good amount of warning folks. If you can't figure out what to do in three years, I can't help you. And anyone with more than one haircut in the Navy has seen this coming for at least a decade.
 

Furniture

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I echo Old Soldier's reservations? How does this move enhance operational effectiveness, aka the ability to fight and win?
How does maintaining an occupation that is essentially an officers servant/NPF manager enhance operational effectiveness?

Food prep duties can be handled by adding another couple of cooks, who can then also do all of the cook jobs. Cleaning can be handled by the officers. The Jr ranks, and C&POs have managed to learn to clean their spaces... NPF should likely be handled by FIN people, since FIN is now it's own occupation. The other tasks, can be handled by the extra Log folks likely to be added to the ship's company to fill the spaces left by the Stewards.
 

Kilted

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No*. That applies only to Voluntary Occupational Transfers (VOT).

The reason for the *: Members undergoing a Compulsory Occupational Transfer are pay protected, but are reduced in rank. So yes, it's a reduction, but no, it does not impact pay. It may impact allowances.

See: Chapter 204 - Pay of Officers & Non-Commissioned Members - Canada.ca
So could we potentially see CPO1's drop all the way to S1 or whatever they are calling LS right now? I know in the Army when you switch trades you normally drop to Cpl. I know one reserve unit that drops people to PteB, but that's another story.
 
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