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CRCN Message on the Steward Occupation Town Hall (Steward trade elimination)

daftandbarmy

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Bonus points if he was married to both at the same time, with neither knowing about the other.

Or just stand up a commune, which would seem to align with ship culture ;)


I Am Looking for a Military Sister Wife​


"This brings the sticking point: my husband. I don’t want to share mine, so I guess wanting a sister wife really means wanting a commune. “Commune” stinks of patchouli and bad weed, but maybe we could make it our own. We could grow fresh vegetables in container gardens in post housing, and take turns watching our children play in our tiny, shared yards. It would be like Big Love, but without the polygamy."

 

Halifax Tar

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Just a question from a crayon eating infantry type:

Why was the trade retired?

Their role and function has reached its end is all. The basic function of JR Stewards is the feeding and cleanliness of the Wardroom and small cleaning tasks in the Officers cabins. As they progress up through the ranks they take on Bar management, Hotel (Barrack) Management, NPF Accounting and Management of the NPF stores and ships canteen.

The RCN is moving away from table and cleaning services for its Officers, Bar/Barrack management can be done by any trade, NPF Accounting can be picked up by FSA and NPF Stores and Canteen management can be picked up by Supply.

All of the CCT/DC and Seamanship roles will be easily absorbed by the department with some augmentation.

Interesting factoid in RCN 1.0, there were two separate trades of Storesmen (Sup Techs):

Naval Storesman
  • General Stores
  • Procurement
  • Spare Parts
  • Warehousing

Victualling Storesman
  • Food Stores
  • Clothing
  • Canteen
  • Laundry

These two trades would come together at TG7 and that would be your Supply Chief.

Stewards were strictly Officer service and cleaning.

What's old is new again I guess... Sort of...
 

Halifax Tar

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Who Knows What GIF by The Animal Crackers Movie


TL:DR RCN is big on self goals and unforced errors.

One of the healthier trades, no major issues related to equipment or training....it's been under discussion for years but seems more of a pet project for someone.

People talk about them like they are doing some kind of batmen roll, when they do a lot of basic food prep type things that someone else will have to do, plus form a large part of the casualty clearing. The ships were designed to have people doing those functions, and has about 3 times the crews as AOPs in less space, so something that works on AOPs won't translate over directly.

Can probably add more cooks, get other people to take over some of the other things, and add more supply techs (to do non-supply tech things). But we seem to be going from something that was working into a period of uncertainty for how that will work going forward.

There are a few major trades that are completely foxed at the moment that need overhauled, so this will eat up a lot of the same bandwidth in the same organizations that should be focusing on that.

A lack of stewards has yet to stop a ship from going to sea, but a lot of other trades will, and there are shortage messages going out all the time for a whack of other qualifications.

Converting running of the messes and similar into civilian positions would have been an option without killing the trade.

If they thought retention was bad before, curious how making additional people do scullery and other roles the stewards do full time as a primary job instead of actual employment in their trade is supposed to help.

This really bothers you eh ?
 

Navy_Pete

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This really bothers you eh ?
Seeing what is happening with the Martech trade disaster, so yes. In that case the decision makers went with the COA that our allies had already tried, found didn't work and specifically told us not to do. So far I see no indication this won't be another shitshow, and there was no articulation on why they are going down this path.

I've lost faith in the institution generally, so probably time to get out. Mostly sticking around at the moment to get a few safety related things sorted out so the sailors are safer and protected a bit from the institution, who will ride the edge until something terrible happens (and then bury the report so we don't learn anything from it).
 

Halifax Tar

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Seeing what is happening with the Martech trade disaster, so yes. In that case the decision makers went with the COA that our allies had already tried, found didn't work and specifically told us not to do. So far I see no indication this won't be another shitshow, and there was no articulation on why they are going down this path.

I've lost faith in the institution generally, so probably time to get out. Mostly sticking around at the moment to get a few safety related things sorted out so the sailors are safer and protected a bit from the institution, who will ride the edge until something terrible happens (and then bury the report so we don't learn anything from it).

Ya the MARTECH shemozzle... I get that. Lots of dissatisfiers there. But I don't see the coloration with the elimination of the Steward trade.

Here is "a" why from the very first post in this thread:

“Why?” We carefully considered options to continue the Steward occupation, and many of our Stewards were a part of those discussions. I know that the proposal developed was appealing to many. As we did the analysis, there was nothing that could not be performed by other occupations. Given the success of the all-ranks cafeteria on the Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ships, and a careful study of the expected roles and functions required aboard the future Canadian Surface Combatants, we realized that even the revamped occupation was simply not going to be viable. Now that this decision has been announced, we will work to identify how the many important roles and functions performed by stewards today will be done in the future and what changes in the establishment and tasks of other occupations will be required as a result.

There will be learning period for the trades with new responsibilities, but I'm not sure any beginning failures will equate to a "shitshow".

I appreciate your position and I appreciate your counter to my support for the elimination of the trade. And I hope you don't get out, because you seem passionate about the safety of our sailors and we need that.
 

daftandbarmy

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Ya the MARTECH shemozzle... I get that. Lots of dissatisfiers there. But I don't see the coloration with the elimination of the Steward trade.

Here is "a" why from the very first post in this thread:



There will be learning period for the trades with new responsibilities, but I'm not sure any beginning failures will equate to a "shitshow".

I appreciate your position and I appreciate your counter to my support for the elimination of the trade. And I hope you don't get out, because you seem passionate about the safety of our sailors and we need that.

From an Infantry point of view the answer is simple: replace Stewards and fresh food with IMPs.

You're welcome :)

the rock maui GIF
 

SeaKingTacco

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I think the USN actually experimented somewhat down that road with some of the LCS, where they loaded the ship with frozen, pre-prepared microwave meals, to save on cooks.

TL:DR- it was not a raging success.

People will tolerate prepackaged rations in austere field environments, for a while. At sea, meals can be the only thing to look forward to and help mark the passage of time.
 

Eaglelord17

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Seeing what is happening with the Martech trade disaster, so yes. In that case the decision makers went with the COA that our allies had already tried, found didn't work and specifically told us not to do. So far I see no indication this won't be another shitshow, and there was no articulation on why they are going down this path.

You mean amalgamating 3 distinct and very different trades with unique skill sets which take years to become proficient in was a bad idea? By time anyone gains the necessary skills to be effective in electrical, millwrighting, basic machining, welding, basic carpentry, and plumbing they basically are at the age to retire.

Maybe they will take the Stewards and put them there, I mean whats the worse that could happen... (It's a joke, hopefully).

I just remember being forced to do scullery and laundry, and hating my existence the whole time doing it. I didn’t sign up to scrap rotten fruit off the floor of the food storage areas, clean up coffee some good for nothing POs allowed to spill into the plates and cups below and failed to tell anyone (which hint sloshes back and forth dirtying everything in there). Getting screamed at because you can’t possibly keep up on the nights when your by yourself and everyone is still up due to workups (i.e. work of 4 people during the day being managed by 1 during the night). Having no supper/lunch because the midnight supper you would eat for the nights was eaten by all the people not sleeping due to workups and by time you get to the meal line its gone (especially if it was a good supper earlier).

I remember one PO going ‘I don’t understand why you hate this so much we used to love it’. To which I responded clearly he had never done this sober.

The point being potentially throwing extra responsibilities on people who likely don’t want those responsibilities has consequences. I hated doing tasks that I didn’t really see as related to my trade. Especially as I didn’t see those jobs I would consider a punishment fairly distributed amongst the crew or trades. At least the Stewards knew what to expect and wanted to do it.
 

Halifax Tar

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You mean amalgamating 3 distinct and very different trades with unique skill sets which take years to become proficient in was a bad idea? By time anyone gains the necessary skills to be effective in electrical, millwrighting, basic machining, welding, basic carpentry, and plumbing they basically are at the age to retire.

Maybe they will take the Stewards and put them there, I mean whats the worse that could happen... (It's a joke, hopefully).

I just remember being forced to do scullery and laundry, and hating my existence the whole time doing it. I didn’t sign up to scrap rotten fruit off the floor of the food storage areas, clean up coffee some good for nothing POs allowed to spill into the plates and cups below and failed to tell anyone (which hint sloshes back and forth dirtying everything in there). Getting screamed at because you can’t possibly keep up on the nights when your by yourself and everyone is still up due to workups (i.e. work of 4 people during the day being managed by 1 during the night). Having no supper/lunch because the midnight supper you would eat for the nights was eaten by all the people not sleeping due to workups and by time you get to the meal line its gone (especially if it was a good supper earlier).

I remember one PO going ‘I don’t understand why you hate this so much we used to love it’. To which I responded clearly he had never done this sober.

The point being potentially throwing extra responsibilities on people who likely don’t want those responsibilities has consequences. I hated doing tasks that I didn’t really see as related to my trade. Especially as I didn’t see those jobs I would consider a punishment fairly distributed amongst the crew or trades. At least the Stewards knew what to expect and wanted to do it.

We all have to do this in every trade. I am sympathetic to ones desire to preform ones primary duties.

What lots of people don't recognize is that those positions for scullery, for example, are built into a departments personnel requirements and help to establish the REMAR; and are reflected as such by billet numbering and titles. Just like Stores has one S3/S1 position as Laundry Operator. It enables Stores to have that person.

Having said the above I do think we could get rid of scullery for mess cleaning and leave that to users of the mess. Same with cleaning stations, if the heads are for the C&POs or the officers, then those users should be cleaning them, for example.
 

daftandbarmy

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You mean amalgamating 3 distinct and very different trades with unique skill sets which take years to become proficient in was a bad idea? By time anyone gains the necessary skills to be effective in electrical, millwrighting, basic machining, welding, basic carpentry, and plumbing they basically are at the age to retire.

Maybe they will take the Stewards and put them there, I mean whats the worse that could happen... (It's a joke, hopefully).

I just remember being forced to do scullery and laundry, and hating my existence the whole time doing it. I didn’t sign up to scrap rotten fruit off the floor of the food storage areas, clean up coffee some good for nothing POs allowed to spill into the plates and cups below and failed to tell anyone (which hint sloshes back and forth dirtying everything in there). Getting screamed at because you can’t possibly keep up on the nights when your by yourself and everyone is still up due to workups (i.e. work of 4 people during the day being managed by 1 during the night). Having no supper/lunch because the midnight supper you would eat for the nights was eaten by all the people not sleeping due to workups and by time you get to the meal line its gone (especially if it was a good supper earlier).

I remember one PO going ‘I don’t understand why you hate this so much we used to love it’. To which I responded clearly he had never done this sober.

The point being potentially throwing extra responsibilities on people who likely don’t want those responsibilities has consequences. I hated doing tasks that I didn’t really see as related to my trade. Especially as I didn’t see those jobs I would consider a punishment fairly distributed amongst the crew or trades. At least the Stewards knew what to expect and wanted to do it.

Meanwhile, in the Infantry ;)

War Mcr GIF by My Chemical Romance
 
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