Cabinet Shuffle- (Wednesday 26 July).

[YZT580]

Losing the ability to force everyone to live by the standards of your religion is not "having beliefs forced upon you", and the insistence to maintain that ability from a wing of a party that supposedly stands for personal freedom and small government is absolutely hilarious hypocrisy.

The only time that personal freedom is safe is when it is safeguarded by rules. There is no such thing as total freedom: we all abide by a code, decided by those who we have selected to rule over us. With exceptions, of course, and certainly with notable flaws, those nations that permit their citizens the greatest freedoms have historically been rooted in a Judeo-Christian heritage. As witness, consider the clamp-down on personal freedoms with gun control, the press (through financing) schools vs. parentage all instigated by those in Ottawa who at the same time extoll their commitment to freedom.

 

[YZT580]

As was tobacco in the areas of Ontario where it was grown and cured. As was living near a pulp mill, which is often the primary industry of a town.

The locals call it the smell of money.

never the growers neighbours. What they call it would have me kicked off these pages for a week

 

[Kirkhill]

never the growers neighbours. What they call it would have me kicked off these pages for a week

Nor the residents of Cornwall.

 

[IKnowNothing]

The only time that personal freedom is safe is when it is safeguarded by rules.

Nicely worded sentence. Utter fluff though.

The thing is our freedom is safeguarded by rules.

A. Those rules say that you're free to believe what you want, worship who you want, live your life how you want within the law.

B. They also say that my family is free to have those beliefs of yours kept the fuck out of my brothers bedroom, my wife's gyno appointment, my child's evidence based, contraception teaching sex ed class. They can be presented in my towns library, but they can't bully other things out.

 

[YZT580]

Nicely worded sentence. Utter fluff though.

The thing is our freedom is safeguarded by rules.

A. Those rules say that you're free to believe what you want, worship who you want, live your life how you want within the law.

B. They also say that my family is free to have those beliefs of yours kept the fuck out of my brothers bedroom, my wife's gyno appointment, my child's evidence based, contraception teaching sex ed class. They can be presented in my towns library, but they can't bully other things out.

backwards. you are ignoring your own statement. "Live your life how you want WITHIN the law"

 

[lenaitch]

Don't forget animal shit. City transplants looove the smell of it when they move to the country

Hence the Farming and Food Production Protection Act in Ontario, which was enacted to protect 'normal agricultural practices' from encroaching cidiots but also local councils which were increasingly kowtowing to them.

Being government, it is full of process and an appointed Board, but of note:

2 (1) A farmer is not liable in nuisance to any person for a disturbance resulting from an agricultural operation carried on as a normal farm practice.

and

6 (1) No municipal by-law applies to restrict a normal farm practice carried on as part of an agricultural operation.

 

[lenaitch]

Nor the residents of Cornwall.

Or Smooth Rock Falls, or Espanola, or Dryden, or Terrace Bay. Some had the foresight (or fortuitous luck) to not locate the townsite downwind from the mill.

 

[mariomike]

Don't forget animal shit. City transplants looove the smell of it when they move to the country

Like the plumbers say, "It may be shit to you, but it's our bread and butter."

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Farms, flies and subdivisions.

Not many farms are newer than the homes near them.

 

[dapaterson]

Hence the Farming and Food Production Protection Act in Ontario, which was enacted to protect 'normal agricultural practices' from encroaching cidiots but also local councils which were increasingly kowtowing to them.

Being government, it is full of process and an appointed Board, but of note:

2 (1) A farmer is not liable in nuisance to any person for a disturbance resulting from an agricultural operation carried on as a normal farm practice.

and

6 (1) No municipal by-law applies to restrict a normal farm practice carried on as part of an agricultural operation.

Developers clear cutting sites outside a city boundary is a "normal farm practice", when they sign a an agricultural lease after the fact.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/tewin-taggart-clear-cut-lease-march-3-1.6786040

 

[Colin Parkinson]

backwards. you are ignoring your own statement. "Live your life how you want WITHIN the law"

I was living my life how I wanted and not bothering anyone, but that did not make them happy so they changed the law some i am now in possession of prohibited items, which a short time ago were lawfully owned.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I was living my life how I wanted and not bothering anyone, but that did not make them happy so they changed the law some i am now in possession of prohibited items, which a short time ago were lawfully owned.

Since much of this swerve in the discussion was based on a claim of "secularismists" vice "non-secularismists" imposing their belief system, perhaps you can explain which religion (or moral code for non-religionists) includes the possession of firearms in their belief system. Other than the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, I was not aware of any deity sanctioned devices in Western religions; I am less familiar with the East.

Just because you disagree with a government policy doesn't mean it was instituted because of "secularism".

 

[IKnowNothing]

Hence the Farming and Food Production Protection Act in Ontario, which was enacted to protect 'normal agricultural practices' from encroaching cidiots but also local councils which were increasingly kowtowing to them.

I was being facetious, pointing out how completely ridiculous and self absorbed one must be to equate odour from the production of a good to its legalization for personal use being a belief imposed on them.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Since much of this swerve in the discussion was based on a claim of "secularismists" vice "non-secularismists" imposing their belief system, perhaps you can explain which religion (or moral code for non-religionists) includes the possession of firearms in their belief system. Other than the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, I was not aware of any deity sanctioned devices in Western religions; I am less familiar with the East.

Just because you disagree with a government policy doesn't mean it was instituted because of "secularism".

I was pointing out that the term "Living within the law" is rather meaningless when the law can change overnight. This is also very much the Soviet/Russian system as well.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I was pointing out that the term "Living within the law" is rather meaningless when the law can change overnight. This is also very much the Soviet/Russian system as well.

Overnight? That was a long night. The Liberals ran in 2015 on a platform of more restrictive regulations for handguns and assault weapons. They formed a majority government. Their 2019 platform language moved to a ban on assault weapons. The 2019 election election saw them lose seats but they were still able to form a minority government. It doesn't appear that they published a new platform after 2019, Their 2021 platform was even more strident regarding firearm restrictions; in the 2021 election they regained a few seats but still were a minority government. Sounds like the our political system is working exactly as it is supposed. Subsequent OICs banning certain weapons and new legislation introduced to further curtail firearm ownership would be should have been entirely expected; to anyone who was listening anyway.

Now, what were those democracy loving Ruskies doing in the same timeframe?


(Edited to acknowledge that the LPC did publish a 2021 platform)

 

[Brad Sallows]

The imposition of freedom-limiting limits can originate in pure "beliefs" without having to originate in "religious beliefs". The absence of a religious pretext doesn't make irrational illiberalism any better.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Overnight? That was a long night. The Liberals ran in 2015 on a platform of more restrictive regulations for handguns and assault weapons. They formed a majority government. Their 2019 platform language moved to a ban on assault weapons. The 2019 election election saw them lose seats but they were still able to form a minority government. It doesn't appear that they published a new platform after 2019, however in the 2021 election they regained a few seats but still were a minority government. Sounds like the our political system is working exactly as it is supposed. Subsequent OICs banning certain weapons and new legislation introduced to further curtail firearm ownership would be should have been entirely expected; to anyone who was listening anyway.

Now, what were those democracy loving Ruskies doing in the same timeframe?

The Liberal desire for gun control despite the lack of evidence for need and the desperate attempts to inflate stats to attempt to create some evidence (pellet guns as gun crimes is one of many examples) certainly works on a belief system based on emotions (and strategic votes). I point out the interning of citizens going about their lawful business was also done by OIC, as I believe was the relocation of the Inuit. so legal is very removed from moral.

 

[Remius]

Since much of this swerve in the discussion was based on a claim of "secularismists" vice "non-secularismists" imposing their belief system, perhaps you can explain which religion (or moral code for non-religionists) includes the possession of firearms in their belief system. Other than the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, I was not aware of any deity sanctioned devices in Western religions; I am less familiar with the East.

Mandaloreans. As seen in the awful last season. And possibly Klingons but I think theirs is based on bladed weapons.

And given the stupid fad of claiming Jedi or Thorism I have no doubt that some would try to claim those things lol.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

The Liberal desire for gun control despite the lack of evidence for need and the desperate attempts to inflate stats to attempt to create some evidence (pellet guns as gun crimes is one of many examples) certainly works on a belief system based on emotions (and strategic votes). I point out the interning of citizens going about their lawful business was also done by OIC, as I believe was the relocation of the Inuit. so legal is very removed from moral.

Decision-based evidence-making at its finest #makeannouncementsnotplans #smarmtocharmnotarmagainstharm #notaseriouscountry

 

[Jarnhamar]

I've heard there are some heathens who don't carry a knife everywhere they go.