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TN2IC and Profanity

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TN2IC

TN2IC

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Okay this is not a rant, but more of a eye opener for me.

            Today I went outside to have a smoke. And I meet my Mo-buddy and talk about the war stories. Then a DND employee came in, lite her smoke. Then asked us snarly to stop using that word. I ask her what word. And of course.. she replied "f***".

              So now at that time my blood just boiling so I put out my smoke and leave back to work. Didn't say a word to her or made eye contact. Was it right for me to leave? Does she have the right to say that? Actually I believe she does have the right. But I am not going to tell my CSM that one... heheh..

          It's a bunch of army folks..and some of us are use to profanity. I know I may be get some flak for this. But still. It was an eye opener for me. Now just wondering, are other bases around Canada like this? Say if I went 1 SVC BN is there much interaction with DND employees? I know I did the SHARP training, but I found this to be silly. I know what she can do, but still. It is not like I am talking about some girl or making fun of someone.

Regards,
TN2IC

P.S. Take it easy on me folks.


*TN2IC hides in foxhole...*
 
It is called offensive langauage for a reason. She has every right to ask you to stop.
 
The use of profanity today has exploded. I am just as guilty as the next one, so......

And yet I found I didn't use it when I was in IT....the atmosphere didn't condone it except when we were in the back shop bitching about something. We found ourselves self regulating it out of courtesy and respect for others. Besides it made us look like twits.

I find the use of profanity by youth today to know no bounds. Recently interviewed people for a P/T position. Some of the people being interviewed just didn't get it, and I'll bet they will never figure out why they didn't get hired.
 
Yeah I hear you on that GAP. All I can really say is that it was an eye opener for me. It was a warehouse smoke shack for atmosphere. But yet DND Employees can talk about so and so cousins (non DND employee) is out of jail and is selling crack again. Like where is this line? Do I really want to hear this? No... but do I say anything? No... Excuse me, I'm ranting again.

Regards,
TN2IC
 
OK TN2IC, here it comes... ;D

I get where you are coming from..  I personally feel it's a matter of perspective and context.  Darn and Damn used in the same context means the same thing.  I was on a course where someone complained about the staff using the Lord's name in vain.  Fine, they started using Norse gods and greek gods to express themselves.  The context was the same.  

But ultimately some people (especially civies) get their feelings hurt when they hear the F word (yet have no problem watching a movie littered with the word.)

I guess you have to watch where and when you are.  Sucks yes, but that's the reality.
 
This type of incident is not uncommon, and happens all across Cananda in multiple work environments every day.  

The guiding light here is based on interpretation of what rights employees have in the workplace, specifically workplace culture versus the rights of employees based on law.  Workplace culture loses every time when actions violate the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the Consitution, the Criminal Code, or provincial employment standards acts (or any of a dozen other applicable acts/standrds/policies).  Decisions from court cases have resulted in the interpretation that this includes being able to work in an environment free from foul language based on the concept that 'if its not work-related, it doesnt belong there'.  Thus, any employee has the right to request that you moderate your tone/language/slang/expressions, if they find them offensive.  (Plus, it was all in the SHARP training too...).  

However, there's a catch you might enjoy!  While she is allowed to exercise this right in the workplace, the smoking area is usually not regarded as a workplace.  It is a public place that she is not forced to remain in.  She has the option at any time to leave the area and not expose herself to the said foul lanaguage by going to a different smoking area.  

Personally I think it goes overboard sometimes (especially with some people who really push the system to make it squeal) but in this case, the DND employee is exercising her right as any person on the street would do in order to not be exposed to the F word.  And it is socially expected that men should moderate their language in the presence of women and children, regardless of area currently occupied.  Its not really a case of whether you have the right to say the F word whenever you want to, but whether you really need to say it so much that (non-Army) people take offence.

Guiding line for future incidents - if it was your mother standing there telling you to stop, how would you respond to her request?
 
I did stop....  My rear end just hurts from all the smacks I got when I was a kid. So I don't dare talk to my mother like that manner. I usually watch my mouth around kids. But this lady wasn't even in my view when she walk in. She didn't walk by... just hid in the corner. I was too busy chatting to my friend to even notice. Way how I see it... she walk in after me.. so she can leave if she feels unwelcome. Simple.

Regards,
TN2IC



Edit due to low/nil nicotine level. Need smoke.
 
Centurian1985 said:
However, there's a catch you might enjoy!  While she is allowed to exercise this right in the workplace, the smoking area is usually not regarded as a workplace.  It is a public place that she is not forced to remain in.  She has the option at any time to leave the area and not expose herself to the said foul lanaguage by going to a different smoking area.  
Click to expand...

I strongly advise against using the above inferred definition of "workplace" and the belief that the smoking area is not included in it.

DAOD 5012 CF Harassment Prevention & Resolution:
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/daod/5012/intro_e.asp

Policy:
Policy Statement The CF and DND are committed to providing a respectful workplace by promoting prevention and prompt resolution of harassment. All CF members and DND employees have the right to be treated fairly, respectfully and with dignity in a workplace free of harassment, and they have the responsibility to treat others in the same manner.

Harassment in any form constitutes unacceptable conduct and will not be tolerated. No CF member or DND employee shall subject any person in the workplace to harassment. Any member or employee who subjects another person to harassment is liable to disciplinary and administrative action.
Click to expand...

The CF definition of "workplace"
Workplace means the physical work location and the greater work environment where work-related functions and other activities take place and work relationships exist. (milieu de travail)
Click to expand...

I'd say that the smoking area does indeed fall under the above definition of greater work enviornment, most certainly it was on the confines of the Base proper. She asked, it was her right. You probably did the best thing by leaving and not engaging.



 
Thanks Vern for the information. Very helpful.


Regards,
TN2IC
 
That's it...I am sueing Trailer Park Boys. Must be some scap goat around here... blah.
 
TN2IC said:
I did stop....  My rear end just hurts from all the smacks I got when I was a kid. So I don't dare talk to my mother like that manner. I usually watch my mouth around kids. But this lady wasn't even in my view when she walk in. She didn't walk by... just hid in the corner. I was too busy chatting to my friend to even notice. Way how I see it... she walk in after me.. so she can leave if she feels unwelcome. Simple.

Regards,
TN2IC



Edit due to low/nil nicotine level. Need smoke.
Click to expand...

Some might not agree with this but from the way i take it, you were having a conversation with a buddy not slamming anyone or referred to anything sexual or vulgar, you were not running around scream F this or F that....she "overheard", she didn't have to listen she could have walked away . I think of f*** or any other swear for that matter just another word. it can emphasize a point, i think of it as a describing word in certain context. i just took my SHARP class and i don't believe that any swear fell under the Canadian Charter of rights and freedoms act nor does it bear any racial meaning. We are all grown ups and i think we can handle a word, that's all it is, A WORD.
i myself am very very very guilty of using swears in everyday conversations but it was how i raised it was no big deal, but saying that i do not use it around young children and when i speak with my elders i just judge on how they speak, if they use it, so do i...if they don't i clean up my mouth.
 
Pretty sad how now a days you can attempt to have a private conversation off to the side and then get charged on crapped on for what someone overheard, which as far as I am concerned is eavesdropping, if you see someone attempting to have a private conversation and don't do everything you can to avoid hearing then its your own fault if you don't like what you hear...
 
Profanity is so common in my workplace, that I never really notice it anymore. I rarely use profanity, mainly due to the way my strict parents raised me; and never really get offened when someones uses profanity, however like every other word in the dictionary, it all depeneds on the context its used in.
 
Just a thought, their was a saying in WW2 that if you removed the word F@@@ and frontal from canadian army vocabulary. The army would no longer be able to talk or attack. ;D
 
i knew someone would prove me wrong when i brought up the rights and freedoms act
haha
 
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