Spartan Myth busting

[Remius]

All the historians I have heard who referred to the time period of a few hundred years after the Fall of Rome as “the Dark Ages” said they did so not because it was a dark and barbaric time, but because there was little contemporary written record of this time period compared to when the Roman Empire was still established.

Lots of people referring it to late antiquity/early Middle Ages to describe that time period now.

 

[OldSolduer]

Lots of people referring it to late antiquity/early Middle Ages to describe that time period now.

No this is the Dumb Ass Age. Because we let Dumb Asses lead us.

 

[Rudburg]

All the historians I have heard who referred to the time period of a few hundred years after the Fall of Rome as “the Dark Ages” said they did so not because it was a dark and barbaric time, but because there was little contemporary written record of this time period compared to when the Roman Empire was still established.

Most contemporary (ie 5th century) observers probably didn't even consider the "Roman" Empire to have fallen. The Eastern portion of the empire was still intact and would last for another thousand years, and it made several attempts to regain the now Germanic western territories.

The "Dark Ages" perspective makes more sense when viewed through the lens of the Britons. The Roman province really did collapse after it was abandoned in the early 5th century. Cities were depopulated within a few decades, German tribes arrived and may have displaced the local Briton population, etc.

 

[Remius]

Most contemporary (ie 5th century) observers probably didn't even consider the "Roman" Empire to have fallen. The Eastern portion of the empire was still intact and would last for another thousand years, and it made several attempts to regain the now Germanic western territories.

A few posit that it never really fell and just morphed.

The "Dark Ages" perspective makes more sense when viewed through the lens of the Britons. The Roman province really did collapse after it was abandoned in the early 5th century. Cities were depopulated within a few decades, German tribes arrived and may have displaced the local Briton population, etc.

Very good point.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Most contemporary (ie 5th century) observers probably didn't even consider the "Roman" Empire to have fallen. The Eastern portion of the empire was still intact and would last for another thousand years, and it made several attempts to regain the now Germanic western territories.

The "Dark Ages" perspective makes more sense when viewed through the lens of the Britons. The Roman province really did collapse after it was abandoned in the early 5th century. Cities were depopulated within a few decades, German tribes arrived and may have displaced the local Briton population, etc.

Tsk, tsk... the term 'Dark Ages' has recently been dropped in favour of the term 'Migration Period'


Migration period, the early medieval period of western European history—specifically, the time (476–800 CE) when there was no Roman (or Holy Roman) emperor in the West or, more generally, the period between about 500 and 1000, which was marked by frequent warfare and a virtual disappearance of urban life. The name of the period refers to the movement of so-called barbarian peoples—including the Huns, Goths, Vandals, Bulgars, Alani, Suebi, and Franks—into what had been the Western Roman Empire. The term “Dark Ages” is now rarely used by historians because of the value judgment it implies. Though sometimes taken to derive its meaning from the dearth of information about the period, the term’s more usual and pejorative sense is of a period of intellectual darkness and barbarity. See Middle Ages; Germanic peoples.

Middle Ages | Definition, Dates, Characteristics, & Facts

Middle Ages, the period in European history from the collapse of Roman civilization in the 5th century CE to the dawn of the Renaissance (variously interpreted as beginning in the 13th, 14th, or 15th century, depending on the region of Europe and other factors).

www.britannica.com

 

[medicineman]

Tsk, tsk... the term 'Dark Ages' has recently been dropped in favour of the term 'Migration Period'


Migration period, the early medieval period of western European history—specifically, the time (476–800 CE) when there was no Roman (or Holy Roman) emperor in the West or, more generally, the period between about 500 and 1000, which was marked by frequent warfare and a virtual disappearance of urban life. The name of the period refers to the movement of so-called barbarian peoples—including the Huns, Goths, Vandals, Bulgars, Alani, Suebi, and Franks—into what had been the Western Roman Empire. The term “Dark Ages” is now rarely used by historians because of the value judgment it implies. Though sometimes taken to derive its meaning from the dearth of information about the period, the term’s more usual and pejorative sense is of a period of intellectual darkness and barbarity. See Middle Ages; Germanic peoples.

Middle Ages | Definition, Dates, Characteristics, & Facts

Middle Ages, the period in European history from the collapse of Roman civilization in the 5th century CE to the dawn of the Renaissance (variously interpreted as beginning in the 13th, 14th, or 15th century, depending on the region of Europe and other factors).

www.britannica.com

Yes, as my mother rather pedantically reminded me...

 

[markppcli]

Tsk, tsk... the term 'Dark Ages' has recently been dropped in favour of the term 'Migration Period'


Migration period, the early medieval period of western European history—specifically, the time (476–800 CE) when there was no Roman (or Holy Roman) emperor in the West or, more generally, the period between about 500 and 1000, which was marked by frequent warfare and a virtual disappearance of urban life. The name of the period refers to the movement of so-called barbarian peoples—including the Huns, Goths, Vandals, Bulgars, Alani, Suebi, and Franks—into what had been the Western Roman Empire. The term “Dark Ages” is now rarely used by historians because of the value judgment it implies. Though sometimes taken to derive its meaning from the dearth of information about the period, the term’s more usual and pejorative sense is of a period of intellectual darkness and barbarity. See Middle Ages; Germanic peoples.

Middle Ages | Definition, Dates, Characteristics, & Facts

Middle Ages, the period in European history from the collapse of Roman civilization in the 5th century CE to the dawn of the Renaissance (variously interpreted as beginning in the 13th, 14th, or 15th century, depending on the region of Europe and other factors).

www.britannica.com

It’s actually very apt. It is a period defined by movement of people.

 

[Furniture]

It’s actually very apt. It is a period defined by movement of people.

There is a fair bit of debate about whether it was lots of people moving, or more a case of cultures spreading...

 

[Castus]

The Hoplite Heresy enters the chat

The Hoplite Heresy: Why We Don't Know How the Ancient Greeks Waged War​

Hoplites are probably one of the first things that come to mind when one thinks of “Ancient Greece”. Equipped with a bronze spear and wearing bronze armor or a linothorax, and hefting the aspis—the hoplite’s bronze shield—they fought in phalanxes. The classic mode of fighting in this formation was the “othismos”, the push, with the aim being to disrupt the enemy phalanx and break their formation. But, over the past few decades, views on hoplite warfare have been called into question and seriously revised, because there are problems in the source material. So, what are these problems, and how do historians of Ancient Greece understand hoplite warfare?

Historian's Craft is a fantastic Youtube channel. Happy to see someone post his videos - most of his stuff is on Late Antiquity, a period which I think has a lot to teach us.

 

[CBH99]

It’s why I shake my head when I see Spartan patches and people extolling Spartans as paragons of warrior culture etc etc and see just how much people don’t know and are influenced by Hollywood...

There's a reason why that whole world decided to call itself 'Hollywood'...

That name didn't just come out of nowhere

 

[daftandbarmy]

There's a reason why that whole world decided to call itself 'Hollywood'...

That name didn't just come out of nowhere

Shameless plug - it's a wonderful little seaside town, especially now that peace has broken out. I'd strongly recommend a visit if you haven't been yet... so much nicer than its 'Ugly American' namesake

A local's guide to why Holywood has been named best place to live in Northern Ireland​

Holywood has officially been named as the best place to live in Northern Ireland in 2021.

It's not the first time the picturesque town in Co Down has received the accolade so it will come as no big shock to the more than 11,000 people who live there – and I am lucky enough to be one of them.

I am what you would call "a blow-in" as I only moved to Holywood six years ago but I feel like I have lived here all my life, and I fully intend to spend the rest of my life here too.

This is because it is, hands down, the best place to live in Northern Ireland – as officially confirmed by the Sunday Times to tell us this.

Why Holywood has been named the best place to live in NI

It comes as no surprise to people who live there that the Co Down town tops the list yet again...and here's why...

www.belfastlive.co.uk