Relevance and Usefullness of Police Foundations?

[blacktriangle]

No education is ever going to count against you.  What kind of learner were you in high school?  Were you good with books, or were you more hands on?  University is more pure theoretical knowledge at first and college is more directly applied. 
If paramedic interests you, go for it.  You will still get to deal with the crappiest elements of society (nobody calls for ambulances like the ghetto) and drive fast.  You just have to decide if you want to be the blood maker, or the blood patcher. ;D

I don't feel like going to university for the hell of it, like most of my friends. After four years I'll graduate with a degree in basketweaving and be no more employable then I could be with a "useless" PF diploma.

However, I wouldn't mind being an officer in the military...the only thing that would really push me to go for a degree. Does anyone here know about mature applicant status with universities? I think I read once that if I complete a college program, even if I didn't take all university prep courses in school, I would still be considered?

I'm thinking police foundations would be a place to start. Hell, my friend's mom is a cop and said the criminals sometimes take it for kicks.

P.S I know all about the ghetto. There are paramedics at my school frequently, and I swear they might as well set up a police station in the parking lot.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

If you can get in as a DEO (do they have that anymore?) then go for it.  You can get your 20 years in and still be pretty marketable when you retire.  They you get a salary and draw your pension.  We hired a 43 year old guy that was an ex PPCLI and Canadian Parachute team member (I apologize for forgetting the teams name...SkyHawks?) and he is having a great time.  Makes enough jake to be a small aircraft instructor in his part time.  Then you can have the best of both worlds. 
Or be a bitter unemployed security guard advocate lobbing posts from your moms basement. 
Your choice. ;D

 

[Thompson_JM]

Or be a bitter unemployed security guard advocate lobbing posts from your moms basement. 

why do i get the feeling he also runs a comic book store....... (simpsons reference for you numptys out there)

 

[Renkluaf]

Hey there everyone, I apologize for the noobishness right out of the gates, I tried to sign up on blueline but they don't accept hotmail or gmail email addresses.

Anyways, I'm starting school this January, I narrowed down my options and I have chosen to pursue a life in policing or investigation (RCMP, TPS or OPP if possible)

I was curious if anybody knew the differences between those two courses offered? Under my schools programs page, the jobs that are listed for both programs are exactly the same so I just want to make sure I'm clear on my choice before I go ahead with it.

Thanks in advance and hopefully talk to some of you soon. Thanks

 

[brihard]

Jesus dude, don't do either. They're very nearly worthless programs. If you can't register for Blueline, you can at least read the 'police foundations' thread in LEApplicants sub forum. Or google "police foundations site:blueline.ca".

Those college programs are useless money grab and are exceptionally limiting if for whatever reason you do not get accepted into the police (most don't) or you find it not to your liking.

Police forces want to see *an* education- not merely an attempt to shoddily duplicate the training they'll give you anyway. The RCMP needs only six months to take a raw civilian and make him a constable. Ontario forces do it in theee. How can you possibly think a two year college program will give you your money's worth? Police aren't looking for people who think they already have been trained how to do the job.

None of the people I know who are now cops did PF. None of them. Police forces were interested that they had some sort of schooling but it disn't matter what. Job experience, a real education, and community involvement bring more to the table.

It's not too late to reevaluate your approach. Those money-grab college programs are a waste, and you can never get your two years back.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Even worse is Sir Sandford Fleming College's 2-year Correctional Worker course..............back when I started it was 3 weeks paid and you were good to go and even nowadays you're hired and then pay for a 6 week course that isn't very much money.

In 23 years I honestly don't know A CO who took the Corrections course at a college.

 

[ArmyRick]

My mother was a provincial corrections officer 28 years ago, back then you joined and they trained you, no money paid.

Different now. I did not realize they had a college program for corrections officer. Personally I am guessing (note use of the word since I have no direct experience) that careers and training in Police, corrections officer are best run by the organizations themselves.

Maybe next they will create a "Military Foundations Program" at a college for aspiring future members of the CF!

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

My mother was a provincial corrections officer 28 years ago, back then you joined and they trained you, no money paid.

Hmm,.......I believe you're in the same province as I am and 23 years ago we got paid from the first moment we walked through the doors.....and my boss just did his tour [35 years] and he confirms that.

EDIT:  I may have screwed up what you meant by "paid".

Maybe next they will create a "Military Foundations Program" at a college for aspiring future members of the CF!

If they think they could rip off the kids there is a "need" for it.

 

[Renkluaf]

It can't be literally useless can it?    I appreciate the quick replies, I am not using this course as a stepping stone as a guarantee to get into a force, but I think after the two years are done I will be more mentally and physically prepared wit this course then without.

Specifically though does anybody know the difference between the two courses?

 

[ArmyRick]

Bruce,

I will re-phrase carefully. My sentence structure can really out to lunch at times. Yes my mother did get paid from first moment of joining.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Thanks.

 

[mariomike]

I narrowed down my options and I have chosen to pursue a life in policing or investigation (RCMP, TPS or OPP if possible)

You mentioned TPS.

Q: Do I need a Police Foundations diploma or a Law and Security diploma to be hired?

A: There is no requirement by the Toronto Police Service for a candidate to attend any Police Foundations or Law and Security program. The only requirement in regards to education is that a candidate possess’ a minimum grade 12 diploma or equivalent certificate.
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/careers/uni_faq.php#q30

Depending on your age ( "be at least 18 years of age" ), you may wish to consider joining TPS as a Cadet.

TPS Cadets receive a base salary of $54,398.66 ( not including overtime ), and are included in the OMERS Supplemental Pension Plan for Police, Firefighters and Paramedics.

 

[GAP]

Is that not what all these "Volunteer Police Cadet" programs are for? To take the most likely and introduce them them early to the misc grind of policing, to develop the mindset?

 

[brihard]

It can't be literally useless can it?    I appreciate the quick replies, I am not using this course as a stepping stone as a guarantee to get into a force, but I think after the two years are done I will be more mentally and physically prepared wit this course then without.

Specifically though does anybody know the difference between the two courses?

As close to literally useless as any college course I'm aware of. You would be competitive, at best, for a mall security job. I was in a lecture given by Senator Vern White when he was still chief of Ottawa Police. 10% of PF grads at most are ops within a year of grad. 30% will ever be, and that's with all subsequent education and experience. Learn a trade or get a degree- something to give you fallback options, as well as something that will offer you some interesting knowledge or capabilities on the side. You'd be surprised at what specialties can exist in policing.

 

[RCDtpr]

I have police foundations and got hired.  I don't regret taking it at all.  I'm not the university type as I don't place a lot of importance on reading books and coming up with theories.  Being more of a hands on kind of person, I chose the college route.  Policing was something I was very interested in and because of the fact I was learning something I enjoyed, I put a lot more effort than I would have in a course I didn't care about.

In the end, regardless off what the diploma is in, nobody can take away the fact that I'm college educated.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Thirty years ago I graduated from a law enforcement program from a college in Alberta.  All of my classmates who wanted to continue onto a career did.  All of them.  That being said, at the time the course I took was one of the best available outside of an in-house training program.  I can't say that in today's world that same education would still be as valuable or recognized by a law enforcement entity but back then, it was.

 

[garb811]

I will echo the refrain, be very, very wary of a Police Foundations (or similar) course.  I have been exposed to pers enrolled in quite a few different programs as they come to us for the work experience hours and there are very few that are worth the money but even then, they do not guarantee any employment at the end.

IF you are going to take one, do the research.  Go and see the facilities, talk to current students about what they are actually learning.  I was giving a presentation at one and was told by one of the students that one of their courses had essentially devolved into the instructor coming in and talking about his former career each day and that was it.  Also, find out if police services are sending recruiters to them to make recruitment presentations in person, that's a pretty good indication that they have a worthwhile program in and of itself (ie. a friends kid went to Atlantic Police College in PEI and they had Edmonton, Medicine Hat, Calgary and I believe Winnipeg, come out to try to recruit.  A fairly good number of that course ended up going to Medicine Hat).

It is pretty sad to be talking to someone who has gone $30k into debt for a course who has come to the realization that their chances of getting a job in their desired professional have not been helped, and perhaps have been hindered, by doing it.

A friend of mine had some interesting advice from a recruiter when she inquired with CPS before going to college about 10 years ago.  The recruiter told her to avoid police foundations at Mount Royal as the applicants from that program were a dime a dozen.  The advice given to her was to go for something like accounting or computer science to make her stand out from the crowd and to bring in a skill set that was lacking within CPS at the time.

 

[brihard]

Thirty years ago I graduated from a law enforcement program from a college in Alberta.  All of my classmates who wanted to continue onto a career did.  All of them.  That being said, at the time the course I took was one of the best available outside of an in-house training program.  I can't say that in today's world that same education would still be as valuable or recognized by a law enforcement entity but back then, it was.

Yup, this would be a then/now thing. These days everyone and their dog has an education, and a unviersity degree is no remarkable at all.

I have police foundations and got hired.  I don't regret taking it at all.  I'm not the university type as I don't place a lot of importance on reading books and coming up with theories.  Being more of a hands on kind of person, I chose the college route.  Policing was something I was very interested in and because of the fact I was learning something I enjoyed, I put a lot more effort than I would have in a course I didn't care about.

In the end, regardless off what the diploma is in, nobody can take away the fact that I'm college educated.

Fair points- although your time in uniform likely had at least as much to do as the specific nature of your education. And the problem is that if policing doesn't end up working out for you, your education has negligible value anywhere else. College programs of a technical nature are often excellent for the field in which they are in, but are narrowly applicable if at all outside of it. The value of education to the police is seldom in exactly *what* you learned, but rather as a metric of your ability to be a self starter academically and to be teachable/trainable.

 

[MedCorps]

Yup, this would be a then/now thing. These days everyone and their dog has an education, and a unviersity degree is no remarkable at all.

I would disagree.  Having an undergraduate university degree is indeed remarkable as only apx 1 in 4 Canadian adults have one. It is just more common than it used to be.  I have seen a number of young adults struggle to get a an undergraduate degree over the years (due to finances, intellect, drive, socio-economic situation, etc, etc).  It is a long three year struggle for some people, even if it was a piece of cake for you. 

MC

 

[brihard]

I would disagree.  Having an undergraduate university degree is indeed remarkable as only apx 1 in 4 Canadian adults have one. It is just more common than it used to be.  I have seen a number of young adults struggle to get a an undergraduate degree over the years (due to finances, intellect, drive, socio-economic situation, etc, etc).  It is a long three year struggle for some people, even if it was a piece of cake for you. 

MC

Among serious and competitive applicants to police forces it is entirely unremarkable for someone in my age bracket to have at a minimum a college diploma, and a university degree raises no comment or remark whatsoever. There may be a small number of applicants still squeaking in with only high school, but that's quite rare, and they normally have considerable other life experience to offset that.

If you want to be a competitive police applicant, you get a post secondary education. That's just how it is. The majority of police forces I've ever spoken to on the matter have considerable disdain for police foundations programs, as they're viewed as completely redundant when the recruit will do full training anyway, and the quality of training at a number of them is deemed quite questionable by some forces. There are a handful of actual police *academies* in Canada, in the sense of being formal police training institutions that are credited as acceptable pre-service training by police forces. The RCMP Depot, the Ontario Police College, Atlantic Police Academy, Saskatchewan Police College... Only in Quebec have I ever come across Police Foundations equivalents (Techniques Policiers) being requisite for admission to a police academy.

If the OP is insistent on taking his PF diploma, or law and security, so be it. It's a shame he can't get access to Blueline- if he's not willing to believe me, he might find the similar opinions of the many serving police officers there to be enlightening.