Racism in Canada (split from A Deeply Fractured US)

[Colin Parkinson]

I suspect the officer had enough of her crap that she threw at the officer where the camera wasn't. Dragging someone is work, especially wearing body armour, duty belt. Looking at the video, there were 2 female police at the scene, why the other one was not helping I am not sure, securing evidence/scene I suppose. Keep in mind this woman had a knife when they first arrived, so likley this went from a high stress to a drawn out discussion, to a wilful disobeying of commands.

 

[mariomike]

Curious to hear from some of the front line officers here.  Isn't there a better way to move someone, rather than cranking the shoulders back like that? 

Drag by ankles rather than wrists backwards & up by the head?  Stay in the room, if safety permits, until backup arrives?

I don't know what RCMP protocol is.

But, I've done enough wellness checks to believe if her civil lawsuit was against us, the taxpayers would be writing her a cheque for "an undisclosed amount".

 

[lenaitch]

I'm always reluctant to comment on police ops because I wasn't there, but the first question that came to my mind was why were they/she (I wasn't aware there was more than one member involved - I don't see it in the video) moving her?  Was there a threat or danger in the apartment?  It would seem easier to remove the threat from the person rather than remove the person from the threat unless it was impractical.  Now that she has been dragged to the front door, now what?  If she was, as reported, in a "semi conscious state", sounds like EMS is required.  Couldn't they treat her in the apartment or hallway at the apartment door?  I have a bit of a hard time seeing how someone, handcuffed and in a 'semi conscious state' poses an immediate and uncontrollable danger.  Dragging someone isn't easy no matter which end you use and I doubt there is any training on that.  If you drag by the feet you are at a bit more risk since legs are more powerful.  Using a foot to push somebody's head back down or hair to lift it up?  Not in any book I read.

It seems none of the other residents had any compassion or interest other than to stand and stare, but I don't know what transpired before the cops arrived; although it is reported that the request came from the boyfriend and not a disturbance call from the building.

This has 'big cheque' written all over it.

 

[OceanBonfire]

Taxi driver subjected to racist tirade after asking man to wear mask

Warning: An embedded video in this article contains racist language

The interaction was captured on Dhunna's dashcam.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/racial-slur-against-south-asians-hurled-at-halifax-cabbie-1.5636633

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/halifax-taxi-driver-speaks-out-after-racist-passenger-rant-1.5011010

 

[Colin Parkinson]

They had an article here on blacks in Lower mainland who experienced racism. I have no doubt it exists, however the majority of blacks I have seen here in Vancouver appear middle to upper middle class. One of the women says she came from Rwanda, I really had to resist the urge to ask why she left and if she was a Tutsis. Modern Canadians are amateurs when it comes to racism, when you compare the rest of the world.   

 

[Remius]

They had an article here on blacks in Lower mainland who experienced racism. I have no doubt it exists, however the majority of blacks I have seen here in Vancouver appear middle to upper middle class. One of the women says she came from Rwanda, I really had to resist the urge to ask why she left and if she was a Tutsis. Modern Canadians are amateurs when it comes to racism, when you compare the rest of the world. 

Class doesn’t mean you are protected from racism.

The history of the residential school system, turning Jews away in WW2 shows that we can play in the big leagues like anyone else.  I know you said modern, but we have current families still broken by a system that was in effect well into the latter half of the 20th century.

Canada is just more polite about its racism.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Yet we overturned that system and most of the RC vs Protestant in Quebec as well. I suspect that there are few people alive today that were responsible for those programs, so how long do we carry the sins of our forefathers? Much of the open racism I see here is by visible minorities unto other groups. At the end of the day racism is never entirely going to go away and who dislikes who gets more complex as the country becomes more multi-cultural. In fact white guys like me are predicted to become a minority in Vancouver by 2031 according to Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

 

[brihard]

Yet we overturned that system and most of the RC vs Protestant in Quebec as well. I suspect that there are few people alive today that were responsible for those programs, so how long do we carry the sins of our forefathers? Much of the open racism I see here is by visible minorities unto other groups. At the end of the day racism is never entirely going to go away and who dislikes who gets more complex as the country becomes more multi-cultural. In fact white guys like me are predicted to become a minority in Vancouver by 2031 according to Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

The last residential school closed in 1996. This is not an ‘everyone involved is now dead’ problem. The effects in First Nations communities are going to last for generations. I was dealing with survivors and their kids/grandkids frequently when I was policing up north. If you aren’t familiar with the inter generational effects of trauma, I respectfully suggest you give a bit of time to reading up on it. We as a country have some dark history that is more recent than a lot of us would be comfortable with. Sure as hell anyone working front lines in emergency/social services in indigenous communities is going to be able to say that the effects of a really malignant official racism is going to be with us for a long time.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I wonder what 'Hunky Bill' would have to say about this

The Edmonton Eskimos are experiencing a backlash on social media after the team rebuffed renewed calls to drop a name critics say is racist.

“We recognize that there has been increased attention to the name recently and we will ramp up our engagement with the Inuit communities to assess their views,” the CFL team’s official Twitter account posted.

https://theprovince.com/news/local-news/edmonton-eskimos-face-backlash-on-twitter-as-calls-for-name-change-rise/wcm/07191803-a237-45fc-bc9c-4939dce12f1f

 

[Good2Golf]

I wonder what 'Hunky Bill' would have to say about this

The Edmonton Eskimos are experiencing a backlash on social media after the team rebuffed renewed calls to drop a name critics say is racist.

“We recognize that there has been increased attention to the name recently and we will ramp up our engagement with the Inuit communities to assess their views,” the CFL team’s official Twitter account posted.

https://theprovince.com/news/local-news/edmonton-eskimos-face-backlash-on-twitter-as-calls-for-name-change-rise/wcm/07191803-a237-45fc-bc9c-4939dce12f1f

Perhaps they should take a lesson from Ottawa...reviewed their new name to replace Rough Riders from every possible direction for sensitivity and cultural awareness and came up with....’Red Blacks’. :nod:

 

[mariomike]

Canada is just more polite about its racism.

None of us made this world. Most just try to get along in it. Might not solve the world's problems, or even help understand them.

But, it costs nothing to smile and be polite. Hypocritical? Maybe. But, sometimes it makes your day a little easier.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The last residential school closed in 1996. This is not an ‘everyone involved is now dead’ problem. The effects in First Nations communities are going to last for generations. I was dealing with survivors and their kids/grandkids frequently when I was policing up north. If you aren’t familiar with the inter generational effects of trauma, I respectfully suggest you give a bit of time to reading up on it. We as a country have some dark history that is more recent than a lot of us would be comfortable with. Sure as hell anyone working front lines in emergency/social services in indigenous communities is going to be able to say that the effects of a really malignant official racism is going to be with us for a long time.

I have seen the effects firsthand as well, although not through the policing angle. Also sailed with a couple of FN who were actually thankfully to go to residential school as it got them away from bad situations, they admitted they don't feel comfortable saying anything positive about it due to backlash from their own communities. It was badly thought out and badly handled. My high school had a high native population when i was going in the 70's, so even by then the residential system was being dismantled where they could. 

 

[YZT580]

you will never eliminate racism until you eliminate all laws that identify a group for special consideration; be it colour, creed, or sex.  The American constitution spells it out as well as anything I have ever read.  All men are created equal is one heck of an creed to live by.  The difficulty starts when you add laws to try and address a perceived problem.  i.e. our population is 30% Asian population therefore the staff numbers in every industry, govt. office should reflect that percentage.  So a law is passed demanding compliance.  Such a law creates resentment and prevents talented individuals from advancing in the company and it prevents the company from potentially hiring the best person for a job.  And at the end of the day, the law doesn't address the real problem.  That problem could be a single prejudiced person in HR, it could be skills training, it could be any of a dozen or more reasons and for politicians, identifying those reasons is time consuming and doesn't make for good press like enacting a law does.
Constantly attempting to address the sins of our fathers through apologies and throwing cash is foolish as well.  Many of those who participated in the residential schools were hard-working and conscientious individuals who honestly (if mistakenly) thought that they were helping bring the noble savage into the 20th century.  Forget the past, take from today forward and do it differently.  Perhaps, when all is said and done, Marianmike has the better solution: smile, and show compassion. 

 

[Remius]

you will never eliminate racism until you eliminate all laws that identify a group for special consideration; be it colour, creed, or sex.  The American constitution spells it out as well as anything I have ever read.  All men are created equal is one heck of an creed to live by.  The difficulty starts when you add laws to try and address a perceived problem.  i.e. our population is 30% Asian population therefore the staff numbers in every industry, govt. office should reflect that percentage.  So a law is passed demanding compliance.  Such a law creates resentment and prevents talented individuals from advancing in the company and it prevents the company from potentially hiring the best person for a job.  And at the end of the day, the law doesn't address the real problem.  That problem could be a single prejudiced person in HR, it could be skills training, it could be any of a dozen or more reasons and for politicians, identifying those reasons is time consuming and doesn't make for good press like enacting a law does.
Constantly attempting to address the sins of our fathers through apologies and throwing cash is foolish as well.  Many of those who participated in the residential schools were hard-working and conscientious individuals who honestly (if mistakenly) thought that they were helping bring the noble savage into the 20th century.  Forget the past, take from today forward and do it differently.  Perhaps, when all is said and done, Marianmike has the better solution: smile, and show compassion.

Until the system is an actual equal playing field you won’t see that.  Reverse racism is a common argument against these types of programs but has very little actual data to back it up.  Plenty of anecdotal  evidence but very little empirical data. 

I disagree with your argument that the people involved thought they were helping indigenous people through the residential school system.  They just told themselves and likely convinced themselves of that to justify what they did.  No different than the similar argument that plenty of confederates used to justify slavery. 

 

[dapaterson]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/racist-flyer-dnd-discrimination-case-1.5633305

CBC is reporting on a story out of NDHQ.

The case relates to a 2016 incident in which a supervisor at DND in Ottawa put up a flyer in a kitchenette showing a photo of a white van made to look like an ad for a Detroit moving company. The logo featured caricatures of two Black men carrying spears and an offensive slogan containing the N-word. 
...
She said she complained to the supervisor's boss, and the supervisor was ordered to apologize to the Black employees in the office.
...
Kenny launched a formal internal grievance with DND after the supervisor, a senior military officer, posted a second image in the kitchenette — this time, a racist joke referencing Jews and Hitler. 

That complaint alleging racial discrimination as well as systemic racism was repeatedly rejected in decisions by the department's internal grievance mechanism.

 

[YZT580]

Reverse racism is a common argument against these types of programs but has very little actual data to back it up.  Plenty of anecdotal  evidence but very little empirical data.

Probably because no one has joined the dots but if it quacks like a duck.... Many people that have gone through a government competition can recite instances where the job has gone based upon race often after the original posting has been grieved. 

 

[Remius]

Reverse racism is a common argument against these types of programs but has very little actual data to back it up.  Plenty of anecdotal  evidence but very little empirical data.

Probably because no one has joined the dots but if it quacks like a duck.... Many people that have gone through a government competition can recite instances where the job has gone based upon race often after the original posting has been grieved.

Do the numbers actually reflect that though?

It’s not hard to connect those dots.  The PS has all the data on all groups represented.  If those dots could be connected to fit the reverse racism narrative I guarantee you someone would have.

Many people have also assumed that jobs went based on race or gender but have very little proof to show that it actually was. 

My last process had two white guys hired (me being one) and I know there was at least one black female in the process.  We were both hired because we were more qualified and scored better on the process.  She was not.  Even though she checked the box for two of the identified groups.  But that is also anecdotal.

 

[YZT580]

The very fact that this conversation keeps coming up is proof that the current system is flawed.  Perhaps, as you say it is truly anecdotal then a more transparent method needs to be devised whereby the evidence for the selection (including scores but not connected to any name but the winner) needs to be made available to any who wish to investigate.  They won because they are (insert group name here) is not refuted by management you will have the argument of bias.  As an aside, the Hamilton Fire Department was filling vacancies 3 years ago and made it known in the competition that ethnic individuals would be chosen first because their percentage of minorities was not up to government standards. 
Irving selected a number of first nations folks for their training programme for the yards and made no apologies for the choice.  Incidentally I agreed with the policy then and now in spite of the appearance of reverse racism.  Bit of a hypocrite I suppose but they still have to qualify as tradesmen at the end of it all and there is not a lot of methods other than OJT whereby a person can break out of their individual ghetto.
Universities have numerous scholarships for first nations that are not available to Caucasians and do not have any that are available for whitey only.  These disparities, well-intended though they may be, create animosity towards other races and groups and that animosity is passed on through generations.
In my own field, the problem of disparate numbers boiled down to lack of applications from those particular groups yet we went through years of grief before they finally figured it out and changed their advertising.  So I go back to my previous thoughts and humbly suggest that where there is a discrepancy, look for the root cause and address it through education or advertising or whatever including changing HR individuals.  Don't do it through regulation 

 

[QV]

What do you think of this?

http://www.gladueprinciples.ca/module-2/key-factors-relevant-to-aboriginal-sentencing-considerations

Canadian sentencing laws recognize that some categories of people in society are different than others.

Section 718.2(e) of the Criminal Code addresses Aboriginal sentencing. The section requires a sentencing judge to pay particular attention to the circumstances of Aboriginal offenders and to consider all available sanctions other than imprisonment that are reasonable in the circumstances.

An individual’s Aboriginal status is considered in determining a sentence because his or her circumstances are different from non-Aboriginal offenders.

 

[FJAG]

There's nothing inherently wrong in giving a hand up to folks who have been disadvantaged for a long time.

Racism itself is not reactive to affirmative action programs and laws. Racism flourished overtly long before any of those programs and to argue that it comes from that, or is exacerbated by that, is rationalization.

Racism will continue as long as one little group of blonde-haired girls bullies another little blonde-haired girl for wearing the wrong clothing. Some theorize that it's genetically ingrained in us to distrust "different" as part of our tribe/kinship coding. One needs to build a very strong social veneer on top of that which makes it unacceptable for racism to take place.

:cheers: