Question for (Rtd) Lt Gen Dallaire

[Kat Stevens]

Free cable TV in every mud hut will do more to quiet that region than a zillion blue beanies will.

 

[George Wallace]

They'd only sell the copper wire for cash.  They'd pull out the Fibre Optic Cable, not knowing the difference. 

 

[childs56]

LOL to the above copper comment

 

[Marauder]

If Dallaire knew the mission was FUBAR from the start, he should have made getting the troops under his command into a position that would weather the storm his only priority. If you KNOW the (humanitarian)mission CANNOT be accomplished, then it becomes criminal negligence to throw away the lives of subordinates, IMO.

And if that Belgian Lt had survived, he should have been court-martialed and shot. Who in their right mind surrenders their weapon, ANY weapon? In Africa, of all places? If they managed to screw up enough that they manouvered themselves into an unwinnable situation, they could at least do their unit the pride of going down fighting. Surrendering brings nothing but shame to the parent unit. Better to live long enough to be tried by twelve, than to wind up never leaving a body behind to be buried by six. Again, IMO.

 

[Britney Spears]

This is somewhat off topic, but Jared Diamond, of Guns, Germs and Steel fame, covered this in his new book Collapse.

Diamond presents Ecological and Demographic reasons for the Rwandan catastrophe, and his arguments are rather compelling. I think I was trying to tie in some of his findings with my "whims of a few people" comment. E.g. There were many areas where few or no Tutsis lived, but thousands died anyway when Hutus, in the ensueing Chaos, took the chance to slaughter each other. I broadly recall similar circumstances in most of history's great man-made tragedies, i.e. the Chinese Cultural Revolution, The Balkans, and The Purges in the USSR. In all these cases much of the slaughter had very little to do with ideology or nationalism, and more to do with "Kill the richest guy in the villiage and divide up his cows amongst ourselves". 

Yeah, people suck. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[Bert]

Maurauder
>

If Dallaire knew the mission was FUBAR from the start, he should have made getting the troops under his command into a position that would weather the storm his only priority. If you KNOW the (humanitarian)mission CANNOT be accomplished, then it becomes criminal negligence to throw away the lives of subordinates, IMO

<

Dallaire has been through a review process.  If he was found guilty of negligence or criminal actions, it would be been well
identified by now.  So far, just personal opinion varies. 

Dallaire was placed into Rwanda under the UN.  He was tasked by the UN and provided with limited resources.  Its
well known he asked for extra resources, troops, and support.  His requests were turned down by the UN and other
major nations.  He was still mandated to do the job.  The people, the main leaders and the mobs on the street, were
beyond his control in the city and throughout the country.  Personally, I think he was left to the wolves.  It
becomes a matter of speculation whether consolidating the various mutil-national units would have prevented any
deaths or ruined other initiates of the mission.

 

[geo]

Rwanda mission was provided with troops from Bangladesh... some infantry and some engineers.... problem is that these guys had no equipment and little/no training AND their command structure would not respond to RDs authority... they would always refer decisions back to their gov't.... so you have troops but... you don't

 

[Daidalous]

I am going to ask if he took up the postion in the Senate to be able to push the government to open there eyes to what is needed out in the world, andhow he plans on doing it.

And if that question is taken

"What do you have to say about many people  saying that  you could have handled  the crisis where 10 soldiers died under your command.


Thanks for all the help guys

 

[Gunner]

"What do you have to say about many people  saying that  you could have handled  the crisis where 10 soldiers died under your command.

Be a bit more diplomatic.  Perhaps "In hindsight, what would you have done differently in Rwanda."

 

[3rd Horseman]

I'm with Gunner be diplomatic no need to tear him down in public.

Geo has a good point on National Command, be it Bangladesh or Canada has a massive influence on in theatre commanders decisions, the UN was not sopposed to be set up that way. The concept of CCUNPROFOR or CC(read other mission) is an imposed national element and has nil to do with the UN mandate or command. Maybe ask him if he could design the mission in the future how would he change the command structure to ensure Rwanda never happens again.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Not that matters now it seems the good Senataor has had to cancel his appearence. A Maj. Beardsly will be be taking his place.At least according to the Gazette

 

[Britney Spears]

You guys must have scared him off with all your chest pounding and howling at the sky. You bastards!

 

[CaptPilk]

Not that matters now it seems the good Senataor has had to cancel his appearence. A Maj. Beardsly will be be taking his place.At least according to the Gazette

Maj Beardsly was Gen Dallaire's Chief of Staff in Rwanda...

 

[3rd Horseman]

Maj Beardsly is a good man he will tell it the way itshould be told . The Maj should have gotten the MSC and the senate seat.

 

[Daidalous]

OK so I went to see him.  In the first row was the base commander and the base chief, so questions were kept civil,  I never got to ask any questons  though , not enough time.  I was surprised at the amount of people that showed up, I had to stand due to the lack of seats.  He poked fun at himself about his drinking problem.  He never touched directly on the solders under his comand that died, but to me it seemed like he dropped hints through out the lecture as to why things happened.  He had no support from the UN or world comminty to do anything.  No reinforcements,  and was out manned and out gunned and the 2 Herc's from Canada  that were his only life line out ,were in constant danger of being pulled due to the intense gun fire they were receiving.(Without them he would have to march/fight his way out.)  He did put a scenario up for people to think about.  A Sgt leads a Section into a village,  it is burned down minus a church.  People start running out of the church to greet the Sgt.  At that moment once hidden  child solders to his left open fire on the Civilians coming out of the church, to his right more child soldiers apprear with female human shields and fire at the section.  What do you do?  He took  a breath and said that a commander in the field has  less time than he has to breath to make  a decision, and he must live with what ever action he takes,  thats the price you pay for being in comand, even if you choice right or wrong.    He did say that he became a senator because  as a retired Gen, no one wants to listen to someone on the outside, so he took the postion to do more good.


If you have any questions as to anything else he said  just ask and I'll try and get the hamster to start running on the wheel

 

[geo]

Re child soldiers........
though they are young they are no longer innocent.
Human shields and SOLDIERS on one side shooting at you and SOLDIERS on the other side shooting at the people you are supposed to be protecting... to me the solution is waaaay too simple.
The ROEs for all of our UN missions allow troops to use their personal weapons to defend themselves....A young Sgt or Mcpl would have very little trouble in figuring out what to do.........

Can only imagine that situations faced by the good Major were somewhat more complicated......


BTW... what do the Base commander and CWO have to do with the conference?............
Aaaahhhh OK - figured it out.... guess the Major was not as "candid" as he might have been without the visual "prompt" from a "full bull"

 

[The Anti-Royal]

I know Brent Beardsley - he is the last man on earth to exercise self-censorship, in any circumstance.

 

[muffin]

I know Brent Beardsley ...

... and as he happens to work down the hall from me I can tell you that members of his organization do frequent these boards... we should keep that in mind when speaking directly about any individual.