Professional Engineer

[Tyrnagog]

Che... I can see both of your parents arguments. I also take off/put on my ring.. same with my wedding band... force of habit, I guess. The significance of the ring? There are a few things.. taken from http://www.ironring.ca/

The ring symbolizes the pride which engineers have in their profession, while simultaneously reminding them of their humility.

The ring serves as a reminder to the engineer and others of the engineer‘s obligation to live by a high standard of professional conduct.

Basically, a reminder of the importance of engineering as a profession and the impact on peoples (read everybody in the worlds) lives. A good engineer is invisible. A poor engineer can lead to catastrophe.

chk2f lol... I am not trying to freak you out.. I mean, we all were first years at one point. The thing you gotta remember is that if you love it, it is worth it, no matter how long it takes.

I am an Electronic Systems Engineer.. basically an electrical engineer with a huge focus on light current systems. A civil engineer, hey?

Reminds me of a joke... Whats the difference between a Civil Engineer and a Mechanical (or Chemical, or Electrical, etc..) engineer?

Mechanicals (elec, chem) make the weapons, civils make the targets.. I joke... one of my good friends is finishing his masters in Civil, working with waste-water management.

What advantageous courses to take? depends on where you want to go with the CF. Since I am applying for Signals, I wouldn‘t be able to answer your questions as well as some of the Combat Engineers out there.

Good luck getting the french. My wife works in HR at the RCMP, and she got a hold of some old tests for me so I could see where I am with my french. I am not too bad, but I still have a way to go. Like getting sworn in...

You have a grat attitude. You will do great. And, proud as I am of my iron ring, I would rather keep my pinky. It may seem like a $60,000 ring, but, in reality, it can be replaced for ten bucks...

 

[mglasspo]

I don‘t post here often, but saw the topic - I‘ve looked into becoming a PEng based on experience and it‘s pretty easy so long as you actually have the experience, you need a certain amount of time (I think 5 yrs) experience in an engineering profession, and you need to write a bunch of challenge tests. This is in Ontario. I haven‘t written the tests yet because I‘m not quite at the experience level I need, so I don‘t know how hard they are, but I‘ve heard that they test the basics of your area of speciality. Now for an officer who has taken an Engineering degree, all you need is the experience, and pay your fees!

 

[clasper]

If The Corporation of The Seven Wardens says you can wear an iron ring, the military cannot tell you otherwise. My former CO (a CELE officer) tried to tell me that I wasn‘t entitled to wear mine since I was an int op. I (politely) quoted the dress regs about rings (no more than two, and not of the costume variety). Just to be sure he looked it up (I had the reference memorized) and there‘s nothing in the QR&O‘s about iron rings.

A few years ago, I met an engineer who wore his iron ring on the smallest finger of his working hand- the ring finger. He told me that now he takes his iron ring off when working with machinery...

 

[bossi]

Yup - a good friend of mine in the armoured corps taught me to remove my rings as soon as I go near an armoured vehicle (by telling me the story about the soldier who jumped down from atop a tank; his ring got caught on something, and ... that particular finger was permanently separated from the remainder of his body ...).

If anybody has a ring they want to keep close to their heart, put it in a ziplock "baggie" when you go on patrol or near heavy machinery/weapons/or anything that could catch your ring/rip off your finger, and use that perfect pocket inside your combat shirt - it‘s safer and quieter than putting your rings on your ID disk/chain around your neck, which can break.

 

[Tyrnagog]

Sounds like sound advice... sort of like not wearing a tie near a lathe...

ouch!

Thanks for the advice though... I would have thought just to put it on the id chain... never really thought about it breaking...

 

[Spr.Earl]

Originally posted by Che:
[qb] Hang on to those rings;
My dad lost his in the Bilge when he was the engineering officer on the HMCS Iriquos, he‘s still mad about that to this day. [/qb]

Che as I‘m a Marine Engineer in my civie job and I bet your dad took it off and put it some where and forgot about untill after the fact and whent back and it was gone.
I know guy‘s who have done the same think including my self.
Been there and done it. :crybaby:

A big bone of contention with my wife and I just after we got married was me not wearing my wedding ring.Argument‘s you would not believe!
So I took her down below and showed her the Engine Room,no more argument‘s.

 

[rdschultz]

I had talked to APEGGA a couple of years ago regarding this very problem. It was at a career fair thing at the University of Alberta, so it wasn‘t the review board straight up, but they seemed to be fairly knowledgable.

From what they said, they do have members serving in the CF, and it is possible to earn you P.Eng this way. The folks at APEGGA also mentioned during class seminars that the engineering work just has to be recognized as engineering work. It doesn‘t have to be working under a P.Eng. so long as a P.Eng is able to recognize that it is suitable work. Depending on the job, I don‘t imagine that it‘d be hard to pull off. It wouldn‘t suprise me if you were able to count your MOC as suitable training (or maybe, get university credit for the MOC through UofM, and count it that way).

As for the ring, I was interested in that too. The end of the month (March 30) here will mark one year of iron ring wearing. I‘m surprised I haven‘t already lost it.

 

[CWeb26F]

I‘m off to my brother‘s Iron Ring ceremony today, he said he‘d rather have the family at that than his graduation. We are so proud of him- graduating with a double major in Computer/ Electrical engineering.

Any bonuses being offered for DEO Engineers these days? Hoping to entice him into the military as a career- least get him to think about it.

 

[rdschultz]

Yep, $40,000 recruitment allowance for specific engineering occupations.

Specifics are here, if you‘re interested:
Recruitment Allowances

To summarize it: $25000 after basic, $15000 two years later. You have to give 4 years of obligatory service, but thats not really that long. It only applies to specific engineering occupations, but any one that an electrical or computer engineer would normally go into (CELE, Sig O, EME, AERE perhaps) are covered.

Edit: Cleaned up the link, so it didn‘t mess up the board format.

 

[Tyrnagog]

Hoser..

I have been looking for that link forever... thanks!

Congrats on the one year with iron ring... did you convo from the U of S?

HayLeyLisa... what did you think of the iron ring ceremony?

 

[rdschultz]

No, University of Alberta. I moved from Edmonton to Saskatoon after I graduated for some odd reason.

 

[Spr.Earl]

You young bugger‘s have it easy now.
When I joined we had no such program like now.

I wish I was 19/20 now to take full advantage of what is being offered.

 

[Tyrnagog]

Mebbe so, Spr. Earl... but at least you can boss us young ‘uns around...

isn‘t it... "rank hath privileges", or something like that?

 

[Spr.Earl]

Originally posted by Tyrnagog:
[qb] Mebbe so, Spr. Earl... but at least you can boss us young ‘uns around...

isn‘t it... "rank hath privileges", or something like that?

[/qb]

Jimmy in all my Military Career have I never ever "BOSSED" any one about or ordered any one.
I‘ve always seen it as asking some one to do a job.
May be I have been one of the lucky one‘s where those under me have respected me even under the worst circumstance‘s where we have done our task safely and worked hard and I reward for a job well done.
If not I will reprimand all even my self and review where we failed.

I have always used the carrot rather than the stick and have always supported my Men and I have two rule‘s.

#1- NO LYING!
#2- NO STEALING!

If you F‘up tell me,and tell me the truth,and I‘ll support you.
As for stealing other‘s personnel kit you are on your own!

When you become a M/Cpl / Sgt use these rule‘s and you will have the respect of the men/women under you.

Many years ago I had a Section of all the Dreg‘s of the Unit that nobody could do anything with or wanted,we went to Ft.Lewis we had the shite job‘s,but we did them to every one‘s surprise even a reserve demo job on a bridge.
Sad to say non of them are still in any more but after that summer they knew they were worth something and could do the job.

Just remember the carrot work‘s better than the stick or shouting at some one!!

 

[CWeb26F]

Hey Tyrnagog

Now I understand your quote about the ‘Sons of Martha‘- wow what a powerful piece. I had no idea this was a Canadian institution or even that Rudyard Kipling was associated with Canada- will have to read about that.

The ceremony was pretty powerful- not sure how much I can write about it. It was somewhat marred by people taking pictures during the ceremony (after being asked politely several times not to)- next year I say they should post Infantry on the stage and state "Anyone taking pictures will be shot immediately."

What do you think about the ceremony guys? The only thing I (and my brother) would question about it is its relevance. I recognize that it is a wonderful tradition- but I would say that 75% of the students were not Christian. There were lots of women in the class (mostly from chemical engineering says my brother lol). And he seemed to think it more directed to civil engineer types. Personally, I‘d wonder in this day and age if maybe they couldn‘t make the ceremony a bit more inclusive.

That being said, the guest speaker was from India and the president of the ‘local‘ can‘t remember the right term- was a woman. All in all the ceremony was special to share in

 

[Tyrnagog]

Back in the day this came about, the majority of engineers were civil (not to say that engineers today aren‘t civil..) but yeah. As an electrical engineer, making an oath on cold steel isn‘t as validating as for someone who designs bridges etc.. but it was nice to be included in the tradition.

As for the christian thing, well... One thing I was told before this ceremony is it is meant to be non-denominational... that being said, there were definitely references, but nothing more than that.

The Sons of Martha is a very powerful piece. It took me a long time to decide what quote from the poem to put in there. Rudyard Kipling was the man... one of my favorite (if not the favorite) poets of all time.

I am glad you enjoyed the ceremony. It has been a couple of years since I went to my ceremony... I may have to go next year, wherever I may be!

 

[Spr.Earl]

Them Engineers

"[The] European universities did not acknowledge engineering as a profession until long after America had done so. I took part in one of the debates at Oxford as to whether engineering should be included in its instruction.... I cited the fact that while various special technical colleges had been existent in England for a long time, yet there were more than a thousand American engineers of all breeds in the British Empire, occupying top positions.
Soon after the Oxford discussions, I returned to America. At my ship‘s table sat an English lady of great cultivation and a happy mind, who contributed much to the evanescent conversation on government, national customs, literature, art, industry, and whatnot. We were coming up New York harbor at the final farewell breakfast, when she turned to me and said:

‘I hope you will forgive my dreadful curiosity, but I should like awfully to know - what is your profession?‘

I replied that I was an engineer. She emitted an involuntary exclamation, and said ‘Why, I thought you were a gentleman!‘"

Herbert Hoover, *Memoirs*

 

[Tyrnagog]

[snicker]

wonderful quote about engineers, Spr. Earl. I just read your post about your leadership style, and that is definitely something I wish to emulate, when I do get into a position of authority.

You sound like you would be a great leader and person to work with...

 

[Duotone81]

I remember in school my professors told me that the iron rings (the ring is actually stainless steel right?) worn today by P.Eng‘s actually comes from the steel a bridge that collapsed. The ring serves as a reminder to the Engineer that they are fallible and to ensure that the "proverbial" bridge doesn‘t collapse.

I‘m still working towards my CET so I don‘t know the traditions of the ring. Has any one of you Engineers out there heard of this story of how the ring came about?

 

[clasper]

Originally posted by Hayleylisa:
What do you think about the ceremony guys? The only thing I (and my brother) would question about it is its relevance. I recognize that it is a wonderful tradition- but I would say that 75% of the students were not Christian. There were lots of women in the class (mostly from chemical engineering says my brother lol). And he seemed to think it more directed to civil engineer types. Personally, I‘d wonder in this day and age if maybe they couldn‘t make the ceremony a bit more inclusive.
[/QB]

My iron ring ceremony was very inclusive. The Wardens of Camp 7 (Kingston) did their best to make the ceremony gender neutral. Even though there were Christian overtones, I wouldn‘t say that it was a Christian ceremony (being an atheist, I tend to gloss over all the references to God anyway...) I didn‘t even feel that the ceremony was directed towards civil engineers. The point of swearing on cold iron is that you are a link in a chain to the past- the tradition of engineering. Not that many civil engineers even deal with iron all that much anymore. Anyway, definitely one of the more memorable events of my life (especially since I was ringed by my grandfather).

For those of you that are unfamiliar with the tradition, read the following:

http://www.ironring.ca/
http://whitewolf.newcastle.edu.au/words/authors/K/KiplingRudyard/verse/p4/breakingstrain.html
http://www.apegga.org/aboutapegga/iron_ring.html
http://www.magazine.utoronto.ca/00spring/f05b.htm
http://www.d.umn.edu/cse/ooerc/iron.html

[edit: added more links for the uninitiated]

Hayleylisa- when I went through, only obligated engineers were permitted to witness the ceremony. From what you‘ve said, it sounds like you watched your brother‘s iron ring ceremony, yet this was your first encounter with the tradition. Is this the case?