Paid Education [Merged]

[The_Stu]

Im thinking about joining the reserves, and read through the FAQ, I just have a few questions, and please yell at me if this is anwsered somewhere else or im in the wrong forum.

1. Will I be reimbursed for my University expenses (Im currently second year at UVic on Vancouver Island and thinking about majoring in political science) ive heard your degree has to correspond in some way to the direction you take in the forces? (Im thinking about going combat engineer, or maybe intelligence or infantry.)

2. What is the overall commitment that you make to the forces? How many years, how much time per year, etc. Also am I obligated to go somewhere and fight or what have you or is that up to me?

3. If I do sign up, I go somewhere to go to Basic in the summer right? Where would I be going? (Im in western canada, Vancouver island 8 months of the year, other 4 Vancouver area)

4. I was considering all this last year and didnt get my ass in gear to go talk to a recruiter and by the time I did he said there was no chance I would make it in for the summer, so when should I be getting the ball in motion so I dont have to wait another year?

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

Yes some of these have already been answered but since I have nothing better to do with my time I'll answer them anyway. 

1. Yes, after finishing basic, you can apply for education reimbursement. I believe you apply at the end of the school year for the previous yr because you need a transcript for it. WRT getting compensation for years completed before joining, I'm not sure how that works but as long as you don't exceed the $8000 limit it might be possible (but don't quote me on it.) Your degree doesn't have to correspond with your trade, I'm in sigs and I'm taking arts courses in university and getting $$ for it.

2. In the reserves there's technically no commitment, you can quit at any time. You're expected to parade 1 night a week and 1-2 weekends a month for exercises, but if for some valid reason you can't make it for a night or a weekend or two, generally people are pretty understanding about it. You also aren't obligated to go overseas or anything but many people volunteer to go as there are plenty of opportunities for reservists who wish to do so.

3. You can go away for basic in the summer, I have no clue where you would go, it depends on your trade as well as where you live. Many units also offer basic on weekends during the year, I believe it's usually every other weekend.

4. Try it, if you go to a recriuter right after the summer break and hand in an application you could get lucky. I handed mine in in April of last yr and was off to basic two months later. Or you could be out of luck and have to wait a while, but then you'd just be first in line for the next course availible.

Hope that helps, and good luck.

 

[The_Stu]

excellent, all the anwsers I needed, thanks.

 

[mandj]

Can anyone direct me to where I can get the regulations regarding education reimbursement? I am deploying on roto 3 in Feb and I want to take advantage of the time to do some correspondence courses.  ???

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Just type "reimbursement" in the search feature, I got too many hits to list here.

 

[MJP]

Go to your PSO office.  Now to recieve reimbursment you have to fill out an ILP (Individual learning plan) before they will authorize any funds.  I did some courses while deployed in Athena and I had to fill out a ILP before recieving reimburment.

 

[Navalsnpr]

Take a look at this:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/engraph/11_04/11_04_er_e.asp

This change really impacts quite a few members.

 

[Michael OLeary]

CANFORGEN - Changes to CF Education Reimbursement Programs

Reg Force:  www.cda.forces.gc.ca/er/engraph/er/reg/ERReg_e.asp 

Reserve Force:  http://www.cda.forces.gc.ca/er/engraph/er/pres/Pres_e.asp 

 

[Morgs]

If this is in the wrong place, sorry.

The [Education Reimbursement Program] for the Regular Force program support education upgrading for members of the Regular Force and provides eligible members, not covered under other programs, 100 percent reimbursement for courses towards a diploma or university degree in a subject area determined to be in the interests of the CF.

Taken from: http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/benefits/cont_ed_e.aspx  Link No Longer Works.

This is really the only relevant information on this page, so i was wondering if there is anyone on Army.ca who are currently completing, or has completed a diploma or degree as an NCM? and if so do you have any more information on the subject?
I also have some specific questions if they can be answered...
1) What kind of areas are "determined to be in the interests of the CF?"
2) Do you have to be in for a certain amount of time before you are eligible for the ER program?
3) How is the reimbursement handled? and;
4) Does the CF reccomend/choose institutions or is it up to the CF member to find their own position?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[chikn suckr]

This topic concerns the CANFORGEN published during the end of '04 dealing with the change of the military reimbursement program for education. It states that, (and I will be careful here to say that these facts have been pulled from a copied CANFORGEN on this site entitled 'CANFORGEN-changes to Education Reimbursement Programs' and my BPSO) as a reg force member releasing from the military with under ten years service there are NO financial benefits offered for education, a change from the approx. $1000 per year of service! If a member chooses to stay in the reserve and study part time they may be eligible for educatonal compensation and of course the reg force for all part time military relevant courses. As a releasing full-time member with over ten years service we may be entitled for up to $5000 max. towards education. A (small?) change from the $20 thousand once available. I would like to ask if there are any other members who do not feel that this particular policy change should warrant special attention on our behalf? If a member signs a contract with the military, are the CF not held themselves to certain obligations to meet, or is there a clause that has been missed by all of us that entitles them to alter our benefits? If this is so, I would recommend vigilance on behalf of all members to try and prevent any other beneficial programs that apply to us all (and especially the NCM's which this policy does most greatly affect), from also disappearing or changing. I have not experienced the protest that I would consider deserved in relation to this change of policy. I did sign two contracts and fulfilled my duty for my country in some places overseas on the front line, and in return they fundamentally adjust a program that was held in great regard as my reason for joining, but then so were medical and dental programs, not to mention a paycheck. Can any person on this forum explain the changes in any way, and help us to understand it?
I can understand also that there is an outflux of reg force NCM members that have served for their first or second BE and this may serve to prevent that flow, and help to retain members that are needed, but I wonder, has anyone in charge of program decision realized that this change may only strengthen their resolve to release? My opinion only.

 

[Gunner]

Buddy, I feel your pain.  The loss of the $1000 per year personal enhancement program (PEP) was a kick in the nuts for all of us. I say that as I embark upon my MBA program this fall with a cost of 20K.  The CF will only pay for approximately $8K and I'll foot the bill for the rest of it and once I complete it the CF will suck the knowledge/skills out of me for the rest of my career.

Having said that, my understanding is the PEP program was not approved by Treasury Board and the CF had no authority to provide it in the first place.  I think many would call it a very lucrative program for those retiring.  The new program focuses more on getting officers their degree (a job requirement) as well as assisting those who don't require a degree to get theirs.

See CDA website:

http://www.cda.forces.gc.ca/er/engraph/er/er_e.asp

Cheers,

 

[chikn suckr]

I think we should ALL be feeling a bit of pain over this. However, if the PEP was not ever approved then it should not have been in use or offered to all members upon their release? Last year the politicians could not do enough for us, then as they are stating to the public that we are getting our tax money back for tours, they are at the same time pulling it out of our pockets in a veiled way. This certainly surpasses the pay raise scams in the past (and surely the future), when all cost of living on a base goes up according to our percentage of raise and sometimes exceeds it. As for the program seeming lucrative to 20 year members, I don't know what you think, but what does a 38-40 year old retiring member have to look forward to after a career in the combat arms? I am sure there are many members of this forum that may enlighten me, but, the pension is difficult to survive on for a single person, much less a retiree with possesions and a family to provide for. Of course, most plan for this, and consider those who dont right out of 'er. There were a lot of jokes floating around about the retired Sgt. Majors giving orders to their fellow commissionaire, and I'm sure their will be a few more in the years to come, thanks to the current system. I suppose if we can't beat 'em, join 'em, if we wish a higher education, go to university and acquire a commission, or is that what we are being told to do?? The attititude displayed by justifying the changes without knowledge of their reason will only serve to ensure that we will experience more change of a similar nature in my opinion. Call this whining all you wish folks, I still think this sets a sad and unjust precedent.

 

[childs56]

wasnt the PEP a trial for four years and to be evaulated at the end of that time to see if it was feasible to continue with.  I maybe wrong but i remember something like that when it first came out.

 

[George Wallace]

That sure is a kick in the nuts.   I was so impressed when I did my SCAN seminar in Oct and heard all the benifits I would be entitled to and even planned to go back to 'School' after twenty-five years.   Now I am told by some I am not entitled to anything, and then in this thread up to $5000, a fraction of what was originally 'promised'.

I am told that Serving Members are also limited in what they apply for, in that it must be a course that will benifit the CF and is relevant to their careers; which doesn't leave much for Cbt Arms types.

Another kicker, now that they have announced this, screwing the Reg Force Members; they go and offer Education Reimbursements to the Reserves.   Why does a CF Member, after ten years service, get no benifit, while a Reservist with one year in can make a claim?   I must be missing something here.

 

[MJP]

I am told that Serving Members are also limited in what they apply for, in that it must be a course that will benifit the CF and is relevant to their careers; which doesn't leave much for Cbt Arms types.

Not exactly true anything towards your first undergrad degree is 100% reimbursible as a Reg Force NCM.  My degree has very liitle to do with my job... 

 

[George Wallace]

Perhaps not towards a Degree, but towards a Trade.  That is where the changes have been made.

 

[Gunner]

George,

According to my ASU Edmonton Guide to Educatiion Reimbursement programs (giving an example of a svc mbr going to retire)

After 20 years of service I am nearing retirement and was anticipating using my PEP Education Reimbursement (ER) to train for a new career.  Under the new guidelines contined within ER for the Reg Force and within the Skills Completion Program (SCP) is my plan still feasible:

Answer - Under the ER Reg Force guidelines, the proposed studies must be of interest to the CF, and the program must be accessed while serving in the Reg Force.  Under the SCP, ER will be available for certification and/or coursework necessary to make you employable in the civilian labour market, in an occupation directly related to your current or former military occupation.  If this is not possible, you may be eligible for retraining in a new occupation.  The SCP may be accessed while serving, and for two years following release.

Another kicker, now that they have announced this, screwing the Reg Force Members; they go and offer Education Reimbursements to the Reserves.  Why does a CF Member, after ten years service, get no benifit, while a Reservist with one year in can make a claim?  I must be missing something here.

Geez George, why don't you go into the Reserves to take advantage of a program for serving CF members as well as collect your pension?

 

[Gunner]

And according to the CDA website:

I am a former Reg Force member serving with the P Res. I have an ILP registered under SCP. Should I submit another ILP if I wish to benefit from ER-P Res? Is my $8,000 limit affected by my SCP?

You may benefit from SCP and ER-P Res at the same time. Simply submit an amendment to your ILP through your P Res unit. The SCP and ER-P Res dollar limits do not affect each other.

Pretty sweet deal!

 

[chikn suckr]

Alright, back on topic. Aside from all you members of the reserve that would wish us to join them in da Mo-litia, The issue I am talking about is the Reg. Force and retiring from it. We should not have to retire after our contract is finished and then sign up for the reserve to get the reimbursement due to us. Another great use of the system, as mentioned by the post above about the 4 year trial, once the policy has been changed, it gets erased from all web resources! This serves to effectively erase our souce of reference to compare the policies, new and old. I hope we have a good memory, as Im sure there is not going to be a lot of printed documentation laying around that can be referred to. We can now all use the he said, she said, and I heard... system of barracks box lawyerisms.

 

[Canadian Sig]

This whole thing comes down to conditions of our contracts. In effect we are requiered to stick to the contract we sign but the Government can change it to their benefit at any time. I was hired under the understanding that if I chose to leave after my first BE ( I chose not to leave ) I would have some education benefits. If that isnt true anymore than ins'nt that breach of contract? What about the guys who were hired on the understanding that if they did 20 years they would be eligable for a full pension but now they have been told they have to do 25 years? One of my friends who did move on after his first BE has brought this to his Member of Parliment and also ( i believe) to the Ombudsman but with no result yet.