Mendicino's call for RCMP to ban neck restraint not backed up by evidence: external panel

[lenaitch]

 

[RangerRay]

One of my favourite scenes!

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

The problem with throws is it can allow the suspect access to items on the members belt/vest. Judo like most martial arts tends to deal with 1:1 encounters, which isn’t something that generally occurs in LE. Control needs to conducted while allowing the officer to not to be solely focused with both hands for long periods of time.

Is it better to have an understanding of the basics of Judo/Jiu-Jitsu than none at all?

It's a tool in the toolbox, no different than training with various non-lethal and lethal means.

I think one of the most useful things it can teach you is judging distance and hand control:

A well-timed O-Goshi will incapacitate someone far quicker than an ASP Baton will.

 

[KevinB]

Is it better to have an understanding of the basics of Judo/Jiu-Jitsu than none at all?

It's a tool in the toolbox, no different than training with various non-lethal and lethal means.

I think one of the most useful things it can teach you is judging distance and hand control:

A well-timed O-Goshi will incapacitate someone far quicker than an ASP Baton will.

I’m all about training, but I think that part of the problem with most martial arts is the goal is generally to pin an opponent on the ground.
LEO’s should be trying to avoid a ground fight, as it ties up the focus to the one individual on the ground, and leaves them exposed to other threats.

I think some sort of blended MMA with an emphasis on standing fighting and control is preferred. To me a ground fight can get into lethal force territory way to quickly especially with solo officers.

 

[brihard]

I’m all about training, but I think that part of the problem with most martial arts is the goal is generally to pin an opponent on the ground.
LEO’s should be trying to avoid a ground fight, as it ties up the focus to the one individual on the ground, and leaves them exposed to other threats.

I think some sort of blended MMA with an emphasis on standing fighting and control is preferred. To me a ground fight can get into lethal force territory way to quickly especially with solo officers.

Yup. A ground fight is exceptionally dangerous for us. Every single fight we get into potentially involves everything on our belt and person, and I’m very comfortable articulating serious damage to someone who chooses to bring a fight close enough to me that he can reach my eyes, neck, genitals, gun, taser, baton, spray, or radio.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I’m all about training, but I think that part of the problem with most martial arts is the goal is generally to pin an opponent on the ground.
LEO’s should be trying to avoid a ground fight, as it ties up the focus to the one individual on the ground, and leaves them exposed to other threats.

I think some sort of blended MMA with an emphasis on standing fighting and control is preferred. To me a ground fight can get into lethal force territory way to quickly especially with solo officers.

So Judo

Judo+Boxing = winning combination on the streets

 

[brihard]

So Judo

I did Judo as a kid, I wish I’d kept it up. Came in handy once or twice dumping bullies on their ass with a solid outer leg reap.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I did Judo as a kid, I wish I’d kept it up. Came in handy once or twice dumping bullies on their ass with a solid outer leg reap.

I've never done such a thing, I swear . Particularly in my younger days when I was training Judo/Grappling 5 times a week.

A few drunken assholes in downtown Kingston FAFO back then .

Yes, a well timed hip toss delivered with enough force can put a person out instantly. It's even better when combined with lots of weight/strength training.

 

[Booter]

There’s no maintenance training time available to produce grappling proficiency in police- more specifically rcmp members

 

[RedFive]

The new block training package does a pretty good job of giving members some techniques to get back on their feet and/or get control, but like Booter said these skills are useless without the time to practice, of which there is none.

 

[Booter]

The new block training package does a pretty good job of giving members some techniques to get back on their feet and/or get control, but like Booter said these skills are useless without the time to practice, of which there is none.

Yes. But the philosophy is maintaining a position or moving out- it’s not advancing a position. For the reason you said. You’re out using tools and controlling distance or you are either maintaining the control you had- or giving it up for distance.

There is a difference between that and grappling and advancing control. Which it doesn’t do. And it’s written right into the program that way- the assumption being if the basics being done don’t work- the person knows more than you and you’re trouble,

 

[Haggis]

And it’s written right into the program that way- the assumption being if the basics being done don’t work- the person knows more than you and you’re trouble,

A lot of officers have their favourite "go-to" restraint or takedown. It's simple and effective and has worked for them in the past. But when it doesn't work, you need to transition to another technique....if you can remember one.

 

[Kat Stevens]

So Judo

Judo+Boxing = winning combination on the streets

So, Muay-Thai, then? Less ground n pound and more knees to noses?

 

[Booter]

I’d say anything where you actually compete is beneficial. They all have weaknesses if you’re fighting the right experienced fighter- but they all have a benefit if you’ve trained them seriously enough to throw hands feet and bodies in competition.

That play fighting makes anyone better than 90% of the population

There is always the outlier farm boys or the swarm. But all in all- all experience getting beat up is beneficial

 

[KevinB]

So, Muay-Thai, then? Less ground n pound and more knees to noses?

I got my ass beat quite badly by a young female supporter who was an experienced Muay-Thai fighter. She could also take a punch quite well as the second time she kicked me in the balls I drove my first into her face —- she kicked me in the kidney and then face a few times after that one. I’d probably been dead if the SGM with us hadn’t stopped it. OFC I found out later she was one of the ground combat instructors…

 

[KevinB]

Overconfidence kills FWIW.
Also immediately be suspicious of anyone a good 70lbs lighter than you with 4-5” less reach who wants to get into a ring with you…
Yeah I got played for a sucker, and lost $50…

 

[Halifax Tar]

I’d say anything where you actually compete is beneficial. They all have weaknesses if you’re fighting the right experienced fighter- but they all have a benefit if you’ve trained them seriously enough to throw hands feet and bodies in competition.

That play fighting makes anyone better than 90% of the population

There is always the outlier farm boys or the swarm. But all in all- all experience getting beat up is beneficial

There are a butt load of people walking around in our population with real fighting experience in the ring and its growing as the popularity of MMA continues to expand.

I have a good friend who is a bit of a legend in the bouncer/night life world here in Halifax who "retired" 2 years ago because it was getting too dangerous.

 

[Eaglelord17]

There are a butt load of people walking around in our population with real fighting experience in the ring and its growing as the popularity of MMA continues to expand.

I have a good friend who is a bit of a legend in the bouncer/night life world here in Halifax who "retired" 2 years ago because it was getting too dangerous.

The biggest thing is people no longer understand when to stop.

Historically you could kick someones ass or knock them out and that would be it. Now people keep going and do much worse, ‘curb stomps’, running kicks to the head, etc. its much more dangerous because I would argue people have less fighting experience and are more likely to go overboard as such. Plus people aren’t willing to step in when it gets too extreme either.

There maybe more people into MMA but the average joe is much less likely to have any fighting experience than even 20 years ago.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Bar/street fights have gone from some Friday night recreation to a dangerous proposition. Time was you swapped a few punches till one of you had enough, then you'd go back in the bar and have a pint, now it's knives and guns for bumping shoulders in the street. It's just no fun any more. Plus I'm too old for it

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Yup. A ground fight is exceptionally dangerous for us. Every single fight we get into potentially involves everything on our belt and person, and I’m very comfortable articulating serious damage to someone who chooses to bring a fight close enough to me that he can reach my eyes, neck, genitals, gun, taser, baton, spray, or radio.

Funny how, us being unarmed/unweaponed, getting an offender to the ground was job 1.