LGBTQ Stuff (split from other political threads)

[Kirkhill]

I'm a big believer in trying to define the terms of debate.

MAPs

MAPs = Minor Attracted Persons Minor attraction is not the same as child abuse Studies have found a consistent trend: the majority of sexual abuse of […]

helpusdefend.com

One of my ongoing problems is that as old terms are redefined and new terms enter the field they present opportunities for all elements to redefine the argument to their advantage. Neutral language becomes offensive. Offensive language becomes the language of resistance or affection.

The thing about this commentary that I like is this -

• Attraction is not the same as action

Or in words that I favour "Let the deed shaw!"

What is in someone's mind is unknowable. What they will do in the future is unknowable.
The only regulatory device available is punishing someone who acts outside the norms of society as society defines them at the time of the action.

There are no immutables in my mind and that, again, is why I support Parliament over Constitutional Courts.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Some said that was when Toronto lost its innocence.

Source?

 

[Jarnhamar]

It makes sense to split the thread but Pride and Trudeau still go hand in hand.

June was alive with terrifying stories of Rainbow Crosswalk vandalism and Canada about to explode into an orgy of anti-2SLGBTQIPAA+ violence.
Gay and Trans rights were on the brink of being naught but distant memories.

And then July rolled around and the threat of gaymageddon was over, at least for 11 months.

It happens every year in June and it's getting worse. The Liberal government and Pride(tm) act like those beggers holding babies overseas where they squeeze the babies foot to make them cry more.

 

[mariomike]

Source?

Ep. 1: Innocence Lost - The Murder of Emanuel Jaques

Podcast Episode · Story Hunter Podcasts · EP35 · 57m

podcasts.apple.com

You're welcome.

If you are that interested in pedophilia, these are some sources about Emanuel Jaques (
1977 ) to get you started.

innocence lost emanual jaxques - Google Search

Murder of Emanuel Jaques - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Jarnhamar]

If you are that interested in pedophilia, these are some sources about Emanuel Jaques (
1977 ) to get you started.

Also the title says Innocent Lost. I'm looking for the names of those who said it. I need first-person quotes or I won't be able to sleep.

 

[mariomike]

Those of us who remember did not find it funny.

Those who do not may find It good for a laugh in the chat room.

Crowd of mourners at the church.

emanuel jaques crowd - Google Search

Emanuel Jacques Toronto 1977

For those who think it's easier to annoy you than to Google 'Emanuel jacques toronto 1977' themselves.

letmegooglethat.com

 

[Lumber]

If you're attempting to use this as a way to paint me as an "ist/phobe" you're just going on my ignore list.

Or you could, you know, be an adult and counter the assertion.

 

[Kirkhill]

Or you could, you know, be an adult and counter the assertion.

How do you counter "When did you stop beating your wife?"
Some things can be countered until the cows come home and never progress past rhetoric.

 

[Furniture]

How do you counter "When did you stop beating your wife?"
Some things can be countered until the cows come home and never progress past rhetoric.

True, there is also the who thing about arguing with randos on the internet. Why waste my time trying to prove to someone I don't know, that I'm not what they want to believe I am?

 

[The Bread Guy]

@The Bread Guy my post had nothing to do with the other stuff.

My bad - fixing now. Thanks for the head's up. Apologies.

Milnet.ca staff

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Do you have any sort of credible research you can point us to that would back up your claim that some portion of the LGBTQ+ community is more inclined to be supportive of people raping children? Because that seems to be what you’re asserting- I think but am not certain that you’re tying it specifically to the transgender population? In any case, you’re painting a particular identifiable group with probably the single ugliest brush that there is. I hope you have something to back that up. You don’t just go off the cuff and suggest that a group of people are more inclined to be ok with people fucking kids.

Your right it is quite the accusation. It most certainly was not the original intent of the movement. However the there is a element that has attached itself to them, adopted their language and tactics to promote their agenda. As I mentioned the alphabet movement is in a bit of a civil war, not only with this group joining, but on the whole Trans issue as well. The radicals seem to be taking in anyone that wants to turn over the status quo. The vast majority do not want the MAP's and predators anywhere near them, but I suspect the way the movement works it is hard to ensure disassociation. There is a ugly side to this movement, I known people in the community that have had the radicals in it come after them and they are nasty, so it keeps the "normal gays" quiet and in line for the most part. But I suspect that radicals are starting to cross lines that the others are finding intolerable.
The trans-gender stuff has been the vehicle they are using the most. Mainly as this is the main area that involves under age kids who are being pushed/encouraged into questioning their sexuality and due to that are quite vulnerable. Before this area took off the gay movement was pretty careful to stay clear of anything kid related and their focus was on gay marriage, safety and rights to share benefits.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It makes sense to split the thread but Pride and Trudeau still go hand in hand.

June was alive with terrifying stories of Rainbow Crosswalk vandalism and Canada about to explode into an orgy of anti-2SLGBTQIPAA+ violence.
Gay and Trans rights were on the brink of being naught but distant memories.

And then July rolled around and the threat of gaymageddon was over, at least for 11 months.

It happens every year in June and it's getting worse. The Liberal government and Pride(tm) act like those beggers holding babies overseas where they squeeze the babies foot to make them cry more.

Yes it made a news story that the RCMP were "Investigating a possible hate crime" because someone late at night did a burnout on a pride crosswalk.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

.

 

[Winds]

Particularly prevalent? That's a pretty extraordinary claim, you must have some evidence of this and aren't just pushing anti-LGBTQ+ bigotry, right?

Major LGBTQ+ organizations have put a lot of effort into making sure the general public knows that they want nothing to do with pedophiles after all:

Fact check: LGBTQ community rejects false association with pedophiles

This statement seems to focus squarely on disassociation with "nonconsenual" behaviours, including pedophilia. I think one of the major concerns is they seem to be leaving the door open for "Minor Attracted Persons" to argue for "consensual" interpersonal (sexual) relationships with minors, and that it is somehow a different thing from pedophilia... even though the definition of pedophilia has everything to do with attraction to minors specifically, and not acts themselves.

Oxford definition of Pedophilia:
"sexual feelings directed toward children"

 

[brihard]

Your right it is quite the accusation. It most certainly was not the original intent of the movement. However the there is a element that has attached itself to them, adopted their language and tactics to promote their agenda. As I mentioned the alphabet movement is in a bit of a civil war, not only with this group joining, but on the whole Trans issue as well. The radicals seem to be taking in anyone that wants to turn over the status quo. The vast majority do not want the MAP's and predators anywhere near them, but I suspect the way the movement works it is hard to ensure disassociation. There is a ugly side to this movement, I known people in the community that have had the radicals in it come after them and they are nasty, so it keeps the "normal gays" quiet and in line for the most part. But I suspect that radicals are starting to cross lines that the others are finding intolerable.
The trans-gender stuff has been the vehicle they are using the most. Mainly as this is the main area that involves under age kids who are being pushed/encouraged into questioning their sexuality and due to that are quite vulnerable. Before this area took off the gay movement was pretty careful to stay clear of anything kid related and their focus was on gay marriage, safety and rights to share benefits.

That's all personal opinion. You haven't actually offered anything to substantiate it. You're still presenting things as if there is actually some cohesive 'minor attracted person' (I'll just say pedophile) movement, and that that pedophile movement has in ANY meaningful way attached itself to or found acceptance within the utterly unrelated LGBTQ+ movement. As best as I can tell you seem to have the theory that the trans rights movement within it is at greater risk of being accepting to pedophiles.

That's exactly what some people want us to believe and be afraid of, but you've offered no evidence.

Yes it made a news story that the RCMP were "Investigating a possible hate crime" because someone late at night did a burnout on a pride crosswalk.

The criminal offense would be 'mischief' (damage to / obstruct enjoyment of property), under s. 430 of the Criminal Code. We have only two actual 'hate crimes' in the criminal code (wilful incitement, and advocating genocide), but other offences can be investigated with potential identity-based hatred as a motivation for the crime, which generally becomes a factor at sentencing. The term 'hate crime' is usually used very loosely and imprecisely in Canada.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

That's all personal opinion. You haven't actually offered anything to substantiate it. You're still presenting things as if there is actually some cohesive 'minor attracted person' (I'll just say pedophile) movement, and that that pedophile movement has in ANY meaningful way attached itself to or found acceptance within the utterly unrelated LGBTQ+ movement. As best as I can tell you seem to have the theory that the trans rights movement within it is at greater risk of being accepting to pedophiles.

That's exactly what some people want us to believe and be afraid of, but you've offered no evidence.

There is enough general evidence out there. I know gays who also upset and worried about this issue, so it's not just a bunch of people outside the issue making up stuff.

 

[OldSolduer]

Pedophile is now "Minor Attracted Person". Have you seen that one?

It may have died a quick death.

Just so you all know I work with a number of openly LGBTQ people, They all abhor pedophiles as much if not more than we on here do.

And there was an organization called NAMBLA at one time that was all in favor of legalizing sex between men and boys. I am not sure what happened to NAMBLA, but maybe it was run to ground as it should be.

 

[lenaitch]

Yes it made a news story that the RCMP were "Investigating a possible hate crime" because someone late at night did a burnout on a pride crosswalk.

It's happening all over. Some of it is quite definitively targeted; others, such as tire marks, might be, of might simply be a few small town good-ol-boys wrecking on something new and shiny that the town installed.

 

[Happy Guy]

Full disclosure. I'm heterosexual male and my children are all heterosexual.

Interesting discussion. I have friends who have an outright hatred and fear of gays and continue to tell people that this community are also pedophiles. Like most people I do have friends who are members of the LGBTQ community. One of them, a guy, retired, came out of closet and married a man. He was apprehensive in coming out, but when he did most of his peers supported him. To me, he is the same guy, except that he could have done better in the marriage department. He has never shown any unhealthy attitude towards young children or inclination towards committing any unnatural and immoral acts.

This is a study of the LGBTQ community in the US prison system and this one was a Canadian study.

There is a higher proportion of the LGBTQ community in prison in comparison to the straight community. This was attributed to members of this community being driven out of their homes, when they came out. In order to survive, LGBTQ youth are pushed towards criminalized behaviours such as drug sales, theft, or survival sex, which increase their risk of arrest and confinement.

They are more likely to, in comparison to their straight counterparts:

• be arrested
• be incarcerated
• face physical and sexual harassment while in prison
• be physically assault
• be denied medical
• more likely to be on probation

These higher rates of being the criminal system certainly does not help the reputation of the LGBTQ community and may perpetuate the harmful stereotype that they are an undesirable criminal group. It is most likely that tihs community is being unfairly profiled and discriminated against.

Like most people, I am afraid of things that are outside my comfort zone. Serving in the CAF has forced me to face these fears. While in operational theatre I had to meet, talk, negotiate with people whose cultures are far different from mine. What I've learned is that everyone (except for a few outliers) wants the same thing: peace and security (home, food) for themselves and their family. The LGBTQ community is no different.

Some of the LGBTQ Community are more strident and forceful in making their views known and this will cause discomfort to many, but this is a good thing. It will lead to more dialogue and hopefully understanding.

Cheers

 

[mariomike]

Just so you all know I work with a number of openly LGBTQ people, They all abhor pedophiles as much if not more than we on here do.

Other than meaningless small talk about sports etc, never talked to them about their "feelings" and personal opinions, and did not offer mine. Figured that was the Chaplains job.
But, was always polite and friendly on most general topics of conversation. Which I enjoyed as some were friendly to talk to.

Didnt try to understand them. Maybe what they said was true. Maybe not .
Mostly just counted heads and turned keys.