I'll believe it when I see it.
Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending
- Thread starter Maxman1
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FJAG
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Yup. Has to. They're Canucks as well.Does "major party" include the NDP?
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Meanwhile, sounds like the CDS is close to despair--CP story:
Defence chief calls on Canadians to rally behind military during personnel crisis
The commander of the Canadian Armed Forces is calling on the country to rally behind its military as it faces an unprecedented personnel crisis that he says is threatening its ability to protect and defend Canada.www.cp24.com
Mark
Ottawa
lenaitch
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The answer from the majority of Canadians to the question 'do you want money spent on defence or dental care' would tell us where politicians will place CAF funding on the priority list.
Pearsonian peacekeeping involved two at least somewhat legitimate governments at least somewhat agreeing to the presence of the contingent. I would ask those who wish to return to those days where such conditions exist today.
quadrapiper
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Especially with an understanding that the peacekeepers won't be involved in combat on a regular basis. Wouldn't be surprised if there's a few countries who've got armed problems beyond their own capability to get rid of who'd be quite happy with a Canadian force getting stuck in.
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Maybe they should stop throwing people out for refusing the vaccine, then allowing recruits to join without vaccinations. For want of a charge, we lose skilled, dedicated soldiers. If the soldiers win on appeal, all the better.
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But they won't be wanting rifles and bayonets, or even truck drivers for that matter. They want somebody to bring them all the stuff they can't afford and help them use it effectively.
It seems hardly anyone talks about patriotism and serving one’s country. My formative years were spent in the U.S. where the mindset was that, for the most part, it was a duty and an honour to serve in one of the branches following graduation from either high school or university. And then along came the Vietnam war which muddied the issue considerably. Still large numbers of (mostly) men were willing to do what it takes to defend their country’s values, even if those values were sometimes misplaced.
Yes, I know Canada is not the same as the U.S. and has a much smaller population and economy, etc., etc. But Canada did at least still have a respectable military following the War…we also had a decent military/industrial sector. I think it was in 1962-63, around the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis that Canada had approximately125,000 in uniform. Consider Canada’s population at the time, which was almost 19 million, half of what it is today. Mind you that was before we had the huge expense of health care.
Regardless, Canada today can afford, or should I say cannot afford to NOT have a larger more powerful military. While in many ways I am a bit left of centre politically (especially the environment) I feel that too many people are ashamed to say that they want a stronger military. Maybe they think they will be considered warmongers for doing so. For one thing the media has long presented the military in a mostly bad light. Seeing reports from Afghanistan showing blood that is actually red rather than fading into the background black and white of WW2 newscasts can have a very sobering effect on a person. Also, the tragic events in Somalia as well as sexual harassment issues of today has scared many away from supporting our military.
In summary it’s all to easy for politicians to hide behind public perceptions as a reason to avoid pushing patriotism and increasing spending on our military. Unfortunately, Canada seems to have ignored the lessons of history just as Neville Chamberlain and his ilk in the U.K and France sought to appease Hitler. If they had stood up to him earlier in the mid 1930s the German high command had been willing to topple him from power.
While Russia’s military invasion of Ukraine has shown their incompetence in many ways, they are still a force to be reckoned with even if it’s due to their having a huge atomic weapons stockpile (some of which may actually work). However, the bigger threat is China with it’s huge military and mostly new weapons. On top of that, China considers itself a near-arctic nation and is building huge icebreakers to accomplish its agenda. They have a fleet of several thousand fishing vessels that travel en masse to the “disputed” fishing waters of other countries such as the Philippines, Vietnam and Chile quickly deplete the fish in those waters before moving on to the next fertile fishing ground. And in many cases they are backing up their economic imperialism with military protection.
Together, China and a weakened Russia (with huge energy reserves) are a threat unlike anything we have seen since the 1930s and possibly even more so. We cannot leave military preparedness only to the U.S., Britain and Australia. Those who support the military need to amplify their voices to ensure that the Canadian public is truly aware of what is happening and that Canada is woefully unprepared for a major war.
My wife recently lost a dear cousin who had been in the RCAF not too many years ago. A few years ago he ending up getting a mole on his nose which grew and looked threatening, and those who loved him urged him to go to a doctor and get it looked at. As it turns out it was melanoma and while the surgeon was able to successfully remove it, he ended up having cancer in his lungs. He passed away a very short time later. The reason I mention him is that he more or less hoped the problem would go away but it didn’t. Similarly, the problems of China and Russia are not going to go away because we wish them to.
Anyway, I hope I have been on topic and haven’t bored you folks half to death.
Yes, I know Canada is not the same as the U.S. and has a much smaller population and economy, etc., etc. But Canada did at least still have a respectable military following the War…we also had a decent military/industrial sector. I think it was in 1962-63, around the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis that Canada had approximately125,000 in uniform. Consider Canada’s population at the time, which was almost 19 million, half of what it is today. Mind you that was before we had the huge expense of health care.
Regardless, Canada today can afford, or should I say cannot afford to NOT have a larger more powerful military. While in many ways I am a bit left of centre politically (especially the environment) I feel that too many people are ashamed to say that they want a stronger military. Maybe they think they will be considered warmongers for doing so. For one thing the media has long presented the military in a mostly bad light. Seeing reports from Afghanistan showing blood that is actually red rather than fading into the background black and white of WW2 newscasts can have a very sobering effect on a person. Also, the tragic events in Somalia as well as sexual harassment issues of today has scared many away from supporting our military.
In summary it’s all to easy for politicians to hide behind public perceptions as a reason to avoid pushing patriotism and increasing spending on our military. Unfortunately, Canada seems to have ignored the lessons of history just as Neville Chamberlain and his ilk in the U.K and France sought to appease Hitler. If they had stood up to him earlier in the mid 1930s the German high command had been willing to topple him from power.
While Russia’s military invasion of Ukraine has shown their incompetence in many ways, they are still a force to be reckoned with even if it’s due to their having a huge atomic weapons stockpile (some of which may actually work). However, the bigger threat is China with it’s huge military and mostly new weapons. On top of that, China considers itself a near-arctic nation and is building huge icebreakers to accomplish its agenda. They have a fleet of several thousand fishing vessels that travel en masse to the “disputed” fishing waters of other countries such as the Philippines, Vietnam and Chile quickly deplete the fish in those waters before moving on to the next fertile fishing ground. And in many cases they are backing up their economic imperialism with military protection.
Together, China and a weakened Russia (with huge energy reserves) are a threat unlike anything we have seen since the 1930s and possibly even more so. We cannot leave military preparedness only to the U.S., Britain and Australia. Those who support the military need to amplify their voices to ensure that the Canadian public is truly aware of what is happening and that Canada is woefully unprepared for a major war.
My wife recently lost a dear cousin who had been in the RCAF not too many years ago. A few years ago he ending up getting a mole on his nose which grew and looked threatening, and those who loved him urged him to go to a doctor and get it looked at. As it turns out it was melanoma and while the surgeon was able to successfully remove it, he ended up having cancer in his lungs. He passed away a very short time later. The reason I mention him is that he more or less hoped the problem would go away but it didn’t. Similarly, the problems of China and Russia are not going to go away because we wish them to.
Anyway, I hope I have been on topic and haven’t bored you folks half to death.
Quirky
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Screw them, they made these idiotic policies, let the entire CAF collapse along with any sort of national defence we have left. We’re a large green welfare machine now.
markppcli
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All ten of them? Also we aren’t letting anyone into BMQ, as far as I know, without vaccinations. Either way the numbers are so small that it’s a nil effect; plus those guys wouldn’t be able to deploy anyways so who cares ?
daftandbarmy
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Makes sense, based on our (messed up) national priorities
lenaitch
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There are several places with a (sort of) legitimate government with an internal insurrection problem, but that is a domestic issue. A far cry from two countries arguing over common turf like Cyprus or the Golan Heights.
Colin Parkinson
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Jump into the British Gurkha recruiting program, they get first pick, we get second. Solider does 10 years and can get his citizenship and direct spouse/kids/parents PR status. That can give us a whole other battalion of infantry. Also let that battalion select it's officers from the Canadian Army, with a 6 month probation for the officer and then they are voted upon to see if they can stay, similar how the interwar Indian Army did it.
I be happy to have Gurkha's as neighbours.
I be happy to have Gurkha's as neighbours.
only if they agree that a properly equipped and manned armed forces is an unwanted but extremely necessary fact of life.Does "major party" include the NDP?
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The CAF does not need more full time infantry.
The traditional solution to recruiting problems is to declare success by bringing in excess infantry and MSE Ops and other easy to recruit trades, and continuing to ignore the difficult ones.
The traditional solution to recruiting problems is to declare success by bringing in excess infantry and MSE Ops and other easy to recruit trades, and continuing to ignore the difficult ones.
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What the CAF does need is a clear set of priorities, a definition of capabilites needed to support those priorities, and the room to maneuver to seek out and acquire those capabilities with minimal political and burecratic interference. We can assign people to trades based on what it is we need most to employ those capabilities and achieve tasks given within out priorities.
Until those things happen, we're doing the status quo with more flailing
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The war in Ukraine has both changed the international order and revealed many unknowns about what a modern peer on peer war would look like. All of NATO, not just Canada, needs to take a good hard look at what we really need, then collectively release new white papers. Until then, we're just spending money for the sake of hitting unqualified targets and buying votes.
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Hmmmm, is he serious?Maybe it's time to let the Navy press gangs start touring the local alehouses again.
Does it matter?
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The one thing I take from the current unpleasantness is that dispersion is a fact of life. A low density battle field.
It may be possible to form up an armoured division on a narrow front. Let's say it survives the attack. Even if if does it will still only be exploiting a short distance on a narrow front. It has the potential to win a battle. I doubt if it is a war winner.
We have been worrying about the Cold War Soviet Army even as publicly available open source intelligence from people like the Swedes were informing us that Fronts were now Brigades, that tanks were rusted out and that ships, subs and planes hadn't been updated since the 1970s.
The only WW3 vestige left is the nuclear threat - also of 1970s technology.
Even the Chinese PLA - is going to be hard pressed to maintain internal order, defend their borders and launch an invasion of Taiwan.
The good news is that nobody has enough soldiers to go around.
It may be possible to form up an armoured division on a narrow front. Let's say it survives the attack. Even if if does it will still only be exploiting a short distance on a narrow front. It has the potential to win a battle. I doubt if it is a war winner.
We have been worrying about the Cold War Soviet Army even as publicly available open source intelligence from people like the Swedes were informing us that Fronts were now Brigades, that tanks were rusted out and that ships, subs and planes hadn't been updated since the 1970s.
The only WW3 vestige left is the nuclear threat - also of 1970s technology.
Even the Chinese PLA - is going to be hard pressed to maintain internal order, defend their borders and launch an invasion of Taiwan.
The good news is that nobody has enough soldiers to go around.
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