• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Haitian leaders must all agree before Canada would lead a potential military intervention, Trudeau says

U.S. has suggested Canada could lead a multinational force in Haiti

Dylan Robertson · The Canadian Press · Posted: Nov 20, 2022 1:27 PM ET

A potential Canadian military intervention in Haiti can't happen unless all political parties in the troubled nation agree to it, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Sunday.

Speaking from Tunisia on the final day of the two-day Francophonie summit, Trudeau announced $16.5 million to help stabilize Haiti, where gangs are strangling access to fuel and critical supplies amid a worsening cholera outbreak.

About half the money is going toward humanitarian aid, and some of the rest is intended to help weed out corruption and prosecute gender-based violence.

But Haiti's government has asked for an international military intervention to combat gangs who have strangled access to fuel and critical supplies in the middle of the outbreak.

The United States wants Canada to lead any military intervention.

Trudeau said Sunday that Canada is working with CARICOM, the organization of Caribbean governments, along with "various actors in Haiti from all different political parties" to get a consensus on how the international community can help.

"It is not enough for Haiti's government to ask for it," he said. "There needs to be a consensus across political parties in Haiti before we can move forward on more significant steps."

He did not rule out eventually establishing a Canadian military mission on the ground in Haiti.

"Canada is very open to playing an important role, but we must have a Haitian consensus," Trudeau said in French.

New sanctions on prominent former officials
A Global Affairs Canada assessment team sent to Haiti to establish some understanding of what is happening and what could help has already returned and provided a report at meetings Trudeau said he attended.

He said the response is complicated because many "political elites" and "oligarchs" in Haiti have used the country's humanitarian crises "to enrich themselves on the backs of the Haitian people."

"So that is why our approach now is not about doing what one political party or the government wants," Trudeau said. "It's calling for a level of consensus and coherence from all actors in Haiti to call for solutions that we can actually get behind and lead on as an international community."

On Saturday Canada expanded its economic sanctions freezing the Canadian assets of Haitian political elites to now include former president Michel Martelly and former prime ministers Laurent Lamothe and Jean-Henry Ceant.

Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly accused the trio of helping gangs undermine Haiti's current government and called on international partners to follow Canada's lead.

"Our goal is to make sure that these people that are profiting from the violence, that are part of a corrupted system, are facing accountability," she said.

Haitian Foreign Affairs Minister Jean Victor Geneus said the new sanctions put real consequences on those causing a "nightmare" in his country.

"These sanctions will have a dissuasive impact," he said in French, while seated between Trudeau and Joly.

Geneus said gangs are raping women and girls, preventing children from attending school and not letting sick people through roadblocks when they seek medical treatment. That means refugees are leaving for neighbouring islands.

"If the necessary conditions for safety are not re-established in a fast and urgent manner, a humanitarian catastrophe is possible in Haiti," he said in French.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-haiti-intervention-sanctions-1.6658254
 

Maxman1

Full Member
Reaction score
558
Points
960
JGYSRXf.gif
 

FormerHorseGuard

Sr. Member
Reaction score
213
Points
560
This would be a big operation for our Forces, and not a pretty one.
Police and law enforcement type work, military security type work. dealing with street gangs who are well armed etc, this could end being a huge PR nightmare if something went wrong and end up as black eye on Canada.
 

Staff Weenie

Full Member
Reaction score
92
Points
480
Haiti is a failed state, and will continue to be one for many years/decades to come. They have overpopulated the country and destroyed the ecosystem, let corruption run rampant, and failed to deliver on key aspects such as health care and education. It is a bottomless pit for foreign aid. I doubt any of the CARICOM nations want to get involved either. There is no scenario where I see our military welcomed by all. Haitians need to develop and implement their own solution.
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Relic
Reaction score
16,893
Points
1,160
Maybe we'll get lucky and these vague Haitian leaders can't agree on the colour of an orange.

It doesn't matter, based on this instructive (and somewhat depressing) article on Canada's various trips to Haiti since 1990, if we go there again we'll likely be back in a couple of years:

Canadian Peacekeepers in Haiti​


Since 1990, peacekeepers from the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) and civilian police forces, including the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP), have served in Haiti on various United Nations (UN) missions. The purpose of these missions was to help stop the internal violence and civil unrest that had plagued the country for years and help promote and protect human rights and strengthen police and judicial systems.

 

suffolkowner

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
966
Points
1,060
It doesn't matter, based on this instructive (and somewhat depressing) article on Canada's various trips to Haiti since 1990, if we go there again we'll likely be back in a couple of years:

Canadian Peacekeepers in Haiti​


Since 1990, peacekeepers from the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) and civilian police forces, including the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP), have served in Haiti on various United Nations (UN) missions. The purpose of these missions was to help stop the internal violence and civil unrest that had plagued the country for years and help promote and protect human rights and strengthen police and judicial systems.

thats the thing unless someone is talking about 20 yrs of martial law I dont see fixing this situation. I dont think anyone has the appetite for that
 

Humphrey Bogart

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Reaction score
7,446
Points
1,360
thats the thing unless someone is talking about 20 yrs of martial law I dont see fixing this situation. I dont think anyone has the appetite for that
If Canada wanted to be a leading middle power and exert foreign influence in an area that could be considered part of our sphere of influence, we could take on this task.

We don't want either of those things so I don't see us realistically taking on this task.

I've got some experience in the Caribbean (I spent 7 months in Jamaica) and while Jamaica also has a difficult security situation, it's magnitudes of order better than Haiti and it has a functioning Government, fairly strong security forces, etc.

Canada leading an international intervention in Haiti = "Don't write cheques your ass can't cash"

We would need to commit a Brigade's worth of forces to the Country (at least) and would need to invest $$$billions of dollars in to the Country to make any difference.

We would also need to completely rebuild Haitian Security Forces and embark on some pretty extensive public works revitalization.
 

CBH99

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
1,811
Points
1,090
This would be a big operation for our Forces, and not a pretty one.
Police and law enforcement type work, military security type work. dealing with street gangs who are well armed etc, this could end being a huge PR nightmare if something went wrong and end up as black eye on Canada.
Not to sound too dark, but unless the street gangs have a supplier of RPG’s & a fairly well distributed network of pricks missing some fingers throughout the country, the fight at the tactical level is fairly achievable.

(Assuming the gangs aren’t using any respawn hacks…)

But agreed, the strategic fight is unwinnable in the country’s current form. Cest pool of corruption, greed, lack of education & poor attitude at the politician level means it’s a place where aid money goes to die…as proven by their current state.
 

YZT580

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
713
Points
960
I saw Black Panther on the weekend. Haiti looked beautiful......Is Hollywood lying to me?

Where is Wakanda when you need them?
Haiti is only pretty from the air. It and Mali have a lot in common when you are up close and personal so hopefully we stay away. I hate watching processions on the 401 and that to me would be the inevitable outcome.
 

Spencer100

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,373
Points
1,040
Haiti is only pretty from the air. It and Mali have a lot in common when you are up close and personal so hopefully we stay away. I hate watching processions on the 401 and that to me would be the inevitable outcome.
World Colonial history they won't teach you in school.

1) Being colonized by British works out that in the end you are doing better than your neighbours.
2) if you can't have that hope for the Portuguese
3) Spanish if you must
4) Never the French

And if a Belgian King is eyeing your place....just shoot yourself in the head. :)

By choosing option one. You get your traditional way of life destroyed but will receive railways, common law and in some cases better governance. And after sometime they will most likely leave mostly peacefully.

But back to the topic
In seriousness this would a be a thankless task. And add very high risk of failure with no upside.
 

FormerHorseGuard

Sr. Member
Reaction score
213
Points
560
reading various news stories, they are smuggling weapons in the USA, using kidnapping as a means to fund their gangs.

Canadian Army could handle some small street gang in a fight. But the headlines back home or around the world might not be kind or honest.

We could end up with another Somali type operation. The police are powerless or corrupt or both.

Only way I see to fix it, is role in, take it hard and fast. Get rid of the police and start over, get some sort of economy set up and make it self running. That is a dream. It would be a long term mission, longer than any operation Canada ( Cyprus was almost 30 years and nothing really changed) and be more like a posting than a UN type mission. Cannot fix it on 6 month rotations, cannot fix it in a year, this would 25 years to never ending operation. They have never had effective self ruling style government. Have no exports, or real reasons to visit the country, so tourism is out. They have to start over and rebuild to get the world to come them for any reason.

It would be a money pit for the CAF, require special equipment or more equipment to have there for an unknow period of time, pay and special allowances, hate to say but funerals for Canadian troops, Canadian Aid groups and government agencies would be pouring money down the drain faster than they could print it.

The US wants Canada to take the lead because they have seen the work of Nation building blow up in their faces in the last 30 years, not too keen to try it again and be on the news for failing again
 

GR66

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,868
Points
1,160
reading various news stories, they are smuggling weapons in the USA, using kidnapping as a means to fund their gangs.

Canadian Army could handle some small street gang in a fight. But the headlines back home or around the world might not be kind or honest.

We could end up with another Somali type operation. The police are powerless or corrupt or both.

Only way I see to fix it, is role in, take it hard and fast. Get rid of the police and start over, get some sort of economy set up and make it self running. That is a dream. It would be a long term mission, longer than any operation Canada ( Cyprus was almost 30 years and nothing really changed) and be more like a posting than a UN type mission. Cannot fix it on 6 month rotations, cannot fix it in a year, this would 25 years to never ending operation. They have never had effective self ruling style government. Have no exports, or real reasons to visit the country, so tourism is out. They have to start over and rebuild to get the world to come them for any reason.

It would be a money pit for the CAF, require special equipment or more equipment to have there for an unknow period of time, pay and special allowances, hate to say but funerals for Canadian troops, Canadian Aid groups and government agencies would be pouring money down the drain faster than they could print it.

The US wants Canada to take the lead because they have seen the work of Nation building blow up in their faces in the last 30 years, not too keen to try it again and be on the news for failing again
Does that sound at all like Afghanistan or Iraq to you? How did they work out?
 

Staff Weenie

Full Member
Reaction score
92
Points
480
The US wants nothing to do with Haiti based upon their previous invasions stabilization operations in Haiti, as well as their history of dealing non-white folks. They also keep floating the balloon that Canada should be lead the mission because we have people that can speak French. Though, Haitian Creole is not exactly French anymore. In theory, we do have a vested interest in that it's in our hemisphere, and Haitian migrants do end up crossing our borders illegally. A stable Haiti would be beneficial to us.

For those who suggest taking on the gangs - I'll give you examples from Jamaica (27 years married to a Jamaican and annual visits) where the Jamaican Defence Force gets involved frequently. The very poor folks, who are most likely to be gang members (or supporters), live in shanty towns, where walls are sometimes corrugated sheet metal or wooden planks. When the JDF would open fire with 7.62 or 5.56, the rounds that missed would pass through multiple shacks, and then the children hiding inside, etc. - That's how you get riots on the streets in a heartbeat. I've been in country many times this has happened. It's a no-win scenario.
 

Fishbone Jones

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
1,781
Points
1,060
"So that is why our approach now is not about doing what one political party or the government wants," Trudeau said. "It's calling for a level of consensus and coherence from all actors in Haiti to call for solutions that we can actually get behind and lead on as an international community."

I'd say that's a pretty safe stipulation.

Political parties and leaders

Alternative League for Haitian Progress and Empowerment or LAPEH [Jude CELESTIN]
Christian Movement for a New Haiti or MCNH [Luc MESADIEU]
Christian National Movement for the Reconstruction of Haiti or UNCRH [Chavannes JEUNE]
Convention for Democratic Unity or KID [Evans PAUL]
Cooperative Action to Rebuild Haiti or KONBA [Jean William JEANTY]
December 16 Platform or Platfom 16 Desanm [Dr. Gerard BLOT]
Democratic Alliance Party or ALYANS [Evans PAUL] (coalition includes KID and PPRH)
Democratic Centers' National Council or CONACED [Osner FEVRY]
Dessalinian Patriotic and Popular Movement or MOPOD [Jean Andre VICTOR]
Effort and Solidarity to Create an Alternative for the People or ESKAMP [Joseph JASME]
Fanmi Lavalas or FL [Jean-Bertrand ARISTIDE]
For Us All or PONT [Jean-Marie CHERESTAL]
Fusion of Haitian Social Democrats or FHSD [Edmonde Supplice BEAUZILE]
Grouping of Citizens for Hope or RESPE [Charles-Henri BAKER]
Haitians for Haiti [Yvon NEPTUNE]
Haitian Tet Kale Party or PHTK [Ann Valerie Timothee MILFORT]
Haiti in Action or AAA [Youri LATORTUE]
Independent Movement for National Reconstruction or MIRN [Luc FLEURINORD]
Konbit Pou refe Ayiti or KONBIT
Lavni Organization or LAVNI [Yves CRISTALIN]
Liberal Party of Haiti or PLH [Jean Andre VICTOR]
Love Haiti or Renmen Ayiti [Jean-Henry CEANT, Camille LEBLANC]
Mobilization for National Development or MDN [Hubert de RONCERAY]
New Christian Movement for a New Haiti or MOCHRENA [Luc MESADIEU]
Organization for the Advancement of Haiti and Haitians or OLAHH
Party for the Integral Advancement of the Haitian People or PAIPH
Patriotic Unity or IP [Marie Denise CLAUDE]
Peasant's Response or Repons Peyizan [Michel MARTELLY]
Platform Alternative for Progress and Democracy or ALTENATIV [Victor BENOIT and Evans PAUL]
Platform of Haitian Patriots or PLAPH [Dejean BELISAIRE, Himmler REBU]
Platform Pitit Desaline or PPD [Jean-Charles MOISE]
Pont
Popular Party for the Renewal of Haiti or PPRH [Claude ROMAIN]
PPG18
Rally of Progressive National Democrats or RDNP [Mirlande MANIGAT]
Renmen Ayiti or RA [Jean-Henry CEANT]
Reseau National Bouclier or Bouclier
Respect or RESPE
Strength in Unity or Ansanm Nou Fo [Leslie VOLTAIRE]
Struggling People's Organization or OPL [Jacques-Edouard ALEXIS]
Truth (Verite)
Union [Chavannes JEUNE]
Unity or Inite [Levaillant LOUIS-JEUNE]
Vigilance or Veye Yo [Lavarice GAUDIN]

We won't change anything there. This is their own forever problem. However, they can start by keeping the Clinton Foundation out of there. Promise to build houses, then steal a gold mine for their brother.

Same island. Just a line on a map separating them.
 
Top