Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Kirkhill]

 

[MilEME09]

If we want to increase our forces, we need to actually train troops quickly. That means we need to stop trying to do everything at once, fill the schools with instructors from the units and push people through over the next two years.

 

[suffolkowner]

I think one of the points made is that we dont really know what we want as a nation or as an alliance. Maybe NATO has said it doesn't want nations to specialize or maybe it hasn't even asked itself that. For decades we concentrated on anti-submarine warfare to the exclusion of a lot of other capabilities. I'm assuming we just didn't do that of our own accord

 

[FJAG]

You mean like SP 155mm, ATACM, MLRS, ADATS, a handful of towed 155mm, 120mm mortars, 81mm mortars, even less than a hand full of towed 105mm, etc.?

I was thinking the aspirational Army - you know - the one I've been yammering about for several years.

If we want to increase our forces, we need to actually train troops quickly. That means we need to stop trying to do everything at once, fill the schools with instructors from the units and push people through over the next two years.

I really have a hard time with that part of the F2025 concept but then I do not know the details of the problem or the plan to fix it. And you know what they say about details and devils ...

I served during a surge phase when we ramped the arty up across the board to create the AD batteries. We didn't ramp up the school. We sent the soldiers to the regiments and used regimental resources to run course after course after course. ... and we were short-handed in the regiments at the time but we could see the benefit of what we were doing right before our eyes. I can't imagine a battalion that can't round up a dozen folks to train two platoons at a time. (or better yet haul them out of cubicles in Ottawa) Technical schools might be another matter.

There's a lot of stuff that desperately needs a reset.

 

[Kirkhill]

They won't, so we need to be prepared to pay for it, and given the overall labour shortages in Canada, we need to pay handsomely.

I think you underestimate your fellow Canadians. I don't think we lack willing candidates. Maybe we're just not using the right bait?

Volunteering​

The below infographics display 2010 survey data. The latest data on giving and volunteering (2013) is now available from Statistics Canada.

The 2010 stats show that 47% (or over 13 million) volunteer. In total 2 billion hours were volunteered, the equivalent of 1.1 million full time jobs. On average, volunteers contributed 156 hours each (roughly 21 working days).

Demographics​

Age: Not surprisingly youngest age group (ages 15-24) represents the highest percentage of volunteers (at 58%). It is interesting to see that folks between 35 and 44 are a close second at 54%. Similar to what we see in financial giving, those who occupy the 65 + category donate the largest number of hours.

Region: Saskatchewan and Prince Edward Island show the highest volunteer rates. Nova Scotia and British Columbia reported the largest average annual hours volunteered.

Why we volunteer​

Canadians state that the primary reason they volunteer is to contribute to their communities. The next two major reasons are to use skills and experience and because they have been personally affected by the cause. The breakdown is as follows:

• to make a contribution to community (93%);
• to use skills and experience (78%);
• personally affected by the organization's cause (59%);
• to explore one's own strengths (48%);
• because their friends volunteer (48%);
• to network with others (46%);
• to improve job opportunities (22%); and
• to fulfill religious obligations or beliefs (21%).

Research About Volunteering in Canada | Imagine Canada

Volunteering The below infographics display 2010 survey data. The latest data on giving and volunteering (2013) is now available from Statistics Canada. The 2010 stats show that 47% (or over 13 million) volunteer. In total 2 billion hours were volunteered, the equivalent of 1.1 million full time...

sectorsource.ca

NFPA estimates there were approximately 152,650 local firefighters in the Canada during the period 2014 to 2016. Of the total number of firefighters 26,000 (17%) were career firefighters and 126,650 (83%) were volunteer firefighters.

Volunteer firefighters freely volunteer their efforts as a way of serving and giving back to their community. They often do not receive monetary compensation from the fire department. If they are paid, it is typically in the form of small stipends or annual bonuses.

Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary|Saving Lives on the Water

ccga-gcac.ca

The Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary (CCGA; French: Garde côtière auxiliaire canadienne, GCAC) is a Canada-wide volunteer marine association dedicated to marine search and rescue (SAR) and the promotion of boating safety, through association with the Canadian Coast Guard under the auspices of Canada's National Search and Rescue Program.

Members of the CCGA are usually recreational boaters and commercial fishermen who use their vessels to assist the Canadian Coast Guard with search and rescue (SAR) as well as boating safety education. CCGA members who assist in SAR operations have their vessel insurance covered by CCG, as well as any fuel and operating costs associated with a particular tasking.

The CCGA enables the CCG to provide maritime SAR coverage in many isolated areas of Canada's coastlines without having to maintain an active base and/or vessels in those areas. The auxiliary is dedicated to providing a permanent day and night search and rescue service to cover marine requirements in Canada and prevent the loss of life and injury.

• Save lives at risk
• Reduce the number and severity of SAR incidents
• Promote marine safety
• Support the Canadian Coast Guard
• Provide a humanitarian service
• Maintain the highest professional standards
• Promote dedication and pride of membership

Search and Rescue Volunteer Association of Canada

Registered not-for-profit, educational organization that supports, coordinates, develops, informs, promotes, implements search, rescue and emergency response.

sarvac.ca

Volunteer | Search and Rescue Volunteer Association of Canada

Volunteer with SARVAC! Click the YouTube links to view brief videos of ground search and rescue in Canada.

sarvac.ca

National Search and Rescue Program - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kirkhill]

If we want to increase our forces, we need to actually train troops quickly. That means we need to stop trying to do everything at once, fill the schools with instructors from the units and push people through over the next two years.

Or, when re-equipping, take a good hard look at what the minimum training requirements really are and focus on weapons, comms, nav and movement. All the rest of the stuff can be used as filler later. And train at the armouries. Not the schools.

 

[Kirkhill]

Another under-exploited pool of candidates?

27%
of Canadians, 18 years and older, participate in sport.

Participation in Sport | CFLRI

cflri.ca

 

[GR66]

I was thinking the aspirational Army - you know - the one I've been yammering about for several years.


I really have a hard time with that part of the F2025 concept but then I do not know the details of the problem or the plan to fix it. And you know what they say about details and devils ...

I served during a surge phase when we ramped the arty up across the board to create the AD batteries. We didn't ramp up the school. We sent the soldiers to the regiments and used regimental resources to run course after course after course. ... and we were short-handed in the regiments at the time but we could see the benefit of what we were doing right before our eyes. I can't imagine a battalion that can't round up a dozen folks to train two platoons at a time. (or better yet haul them out of cubicles in Ottawa) Technical schools might be another matter.

There's a lot of stuff that desperately needs a reset.

Maybe part of the problem is that we treat every recruit like they are lifers that are going to retire with 25 years of service. Perhaps with some of the combat trades...those ones that we need to grow rapidly in case of a major shooting war...we should focus on more recruits, trained more quickly and serving for shorter terms of service. Let the bulk of them release after 2-3 years and provide a much larger pool of semi-trained civilians (and potential CT Reservists) and invest more time in those individuals that decide to continue their CF careers.

 

[suffolkowner]

I think you underestimate your fellow Canadians. I don't think we lack willing candidates. Maybe we're just not using the right bait?

Its not a unique problem to the CAF's as there is a huge disconnect between employers and employees. But the CAF is ridiculous especially when you have people waiting years to get in. Who does that?(I mean a couple of my buddies did but wow)

 

[Brad Sallows]

Boosting defence spending is achieved if anything that qualifies as defence spending is boosted, or the parameters are redefined to include stuff not already included. Don't get hopes up.

 

[Halifax Tar]

@Halifax Tar

If Canadians aren't willing to have Canadian troops die on the ground in Latvia, they aren't willing to have Canadians die at sea, or in the air over the Atlantic either. Divesting the ability to fight on the ground, just so we can "take pressure" off the USN is never going to be enough to make our NATO allies happy, and Canada won't spend the money to achieve it.

I think if Canadians witnessed our BG in Latvia become the equivalent of sacrificial lamb I think they would be appalled. Again if were going to do this Army thing we should do it right. Right now I only hope our BG in Latvia doesn't have to die at the alter for a better post war bargaining position, because if that's the whole goal then there is a better way to do this and we could probably have a bigger impact, all be it behind the curtain and not on the stage.

Also, your East Coast is showing... The Pacific theater is just as vital to our national interests if China gets squirrely. NATO isn't our only concern, we are a Pacific Ocean bordering country, with interests in Asia.

Not at all, this whole conversation has been NATO centric; or at least that's been my perception. For the Pacific and Artic we need subs. Probably nukes. Bottle up China on their land and make leaving their shores certain death while closing off their sea trade routes, sink their merchant fleet everywhere.

I think you are seriously underestimating how much it matters to be in the fight alongside your allies. If the best we can do is some planes, and ships, why would anyone send their army here to help us if we need it?

I think you're missing that fighting alongside your allies is more than boots on the ground. Keeping the NA Supply route open during a war in Europe will be difference between a victory or loss. Europe knows this. They have not the raw material, man power or manufacturing to sustain a prolonged conflict. And their industry will be leveled fast.

Who can send their Army here to help us ? Who could invade us ? And if we have to defend against an invasion, that doesn't come from the USA, the front line will be in the air and at sea. And if the invasion does come from the USA, ala Fallout universe, we wont be able to stop that anyhow.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Well, stand up the North Atlantic convoy protection force again.

Luckily the RCN culture has survived over 70 years of 'neglect' due to focusing on less important tasks so it shouldn't take us long to get back in the saddle

Putin's threat to UK: 'I could sink your ships without a world war'​

VLADIMIR PUTIN warned the UK that Russia could sink its ships without sparking a global conflict in a furious rant last year.​

Putin's forces continue to bombard major cities in Ukraine as the invasion nears three weeks.

The war has heightened tensions between Russia and the UK, but Moscow and London have been at loggerheads for years.

This was seen in June 2021 when Putin warned the UK that his forces could sink British ships.

Putin said Russia could have sunk a British warship that it accused of illegally entering its territorial waters without starting World War 3 and accused Washington of a role in the "provocation".

At the time, Moscow had already expressed anger in the direction of the UK after British ships operated near Crimea.

Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014, but Britain and most of the world still recognise the Black Sea peninsula as part of Ukraine, not Russia.

Putin, speaking during his annual question and answer session with voters, signalled his anger over the operations.

When asked if the world had stood on the precipice of World War 3 during the standoff, Putin said: "Of course not.

"Even if we had sunk the ship, it is hard to imagine that the world would have been on the verge of World War 3 because those doing it know that they could not emerge as victors from such a war."

Putin accused the US and UK of planning the episode together, saying a US spy plane had taken off from Greece earlier on the same day to watch how Russia would respond to the British warship.

Putin's threat to UK: 'I could sink your ships without a world war'

VLADIMIR PUTIN warned the UK that Russia could sink its ships without sparking a global conflict in a furious rant last year.

www.express.co.uk

 

[Halifax Tar]

Well, stand up the North Atlantic convoy protection force again.

Luckily the RCN culture has survived over 70 years of 'neglect' due to focusing on less important tasks so it shouldn't take us long to get back in the saddle

Putin's threat to UK: 'I could sink your ships without a world war'​

VLADIMIR PUTIN warned the UK that Russia could sink its ships without sparking a global conflict in a furious rant last year.​

Putin's forces continue to bombard major cities in Ukraine as the invasion nears three weeks.

The war has heightened tensions between Russia and the UK, but Moscow and London have been at loggerheads for years.

This was seen in June 2021 when Putin warned the UK that his forces could sink British ships.

Putin said Russia could have sunk a British warship that it accused of illegally entering its territorial waters without starting World War 3 and accused Washington of a role in the "provocation".

At the time, Moscow had already expressed anger in the direction of the UK after British ships operated near Crimea.

Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014, but Britain and most of the world still recognise the Black Sea peninsula as part of Ukraine, not Russia.

Putin, speaking during his annual question and answer session with voters, signalled his anger over the operations.

When asked if the world had stood on the precipice of World War 3 during the standoff, Putin said: "Of course not.

"Even if we had sunk the ship, it is hard to imagine that the world would have been on the verge of World War 3 because those doing it know that they could not emerge as victors from such a war."

Putin accused the US and UK of planning the episode together, saying a US spy plane had taken off from Greece earlier on the same day to watch how Russia would respond to the British warship.

Putin's threat to UK: 'I could sink your ships without a world war'

VLADIMIR PUTIN warned the UK that Russia could sink its ships without sparking a global conflict in a furious rant last year.

www.express.co.uk

The poor RN is only a shadow of its cold war self.

 

[Kirkhill]

Boosting defence spending is achieved if anything that qualifies as defence spending is boosted, or the parameters are redefined to include stuff not already included. Don't get hopes up.

As in: the last thing we need is more infrastructure so what we will get is infrastructure?

 

[suffolkowner]

Think we might be better going light/medium anti-tank and anti-air in the Baltics.

Only slightly tongue in cheek. Sacrifice everything for a bunch of Barracuda subs, B-21's, and F-35's plus whatever multipliers needed for them like 330-MRTT, P-8's

 

[Jarnhamar]

Caught an odd comment from MND Anand in an article at Global.

“We know from our defence policy that we will be increasing defence spending by 70 per cent over the nine-year period beginning in 2017,” she said.

Have we been increasing defence spending since 2017? The wording seems odd.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Caught an odd comment from MND Anand in an article at Global.



Have we been increasing defence spending since 2017? The wording seems odd.

Lots of words not so much in the way of quantifiable eh ?

 

[dapaterson]

I suspect that increasing capital expenditures as JSS/CSC/Next Gen Fighter projects enter implementation could account for that growth (plus regular inflationary increases).

It's always all about the reference points to pick.

 

[suffolkowner]

Canada (Canadian dollars)
2014 20,076
2015 23,900
2016 23,474
2017 30,761
2018 29,025
2019 29,949
2020 31,644
2021 33,674

from the nato document

 

[Zipperhead99]

Another under-exploited pool of candidates?

27%
of Canadians, 18 years and older, participate in sport.

Participation in Sport | CFLRI

cflri.ca

Certainly agree on the under-exploited. Here in the BC Interior we have Junior, Junior A, Junior B hockey teams and CJFL: all with kids that are physically fit, have worked as part of a team so they should have that loyalty / teamwork / respect for coaches (i.e. officers and NCOs) that would make them great candidates for the CAF but, alas we never target them for recruiting and personally I feel that it is an opportunity lost