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Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

Fair comment, but not an excuse for what they (grownups) could and should have anticipated.
I disagree.

Most adults aren't in the business of accounting for/planning for the stupidity of other adults. It's something all of us on this site are well versed in, but it's not something that comes up in most occupations unless you're in an industry like mining, fishing, forestry, or other businesses where people live and work together for long periods of time.

The average Canadian doesn't have to account for where strangers vaguely associated with them will take a piss at 3 am when camping in their car.
 
I would beg to differ, those travelling around the world protesting are getting paid pretty well. Look up paid activists. See where they are comming from its a bit surprising to many.
The northern gatway pipe line protest had a few interesting members who were paid very well for their activism.
I did. I didn't know it was an actual employment category. If it were government there would be a nine-digit position code. ZipRecruiter shows "Community Activist" rangine from $21.15-$36.30/hr. US and "Social Activist" averaging $25/hr. I don't know if many work a 40 hour week and if things like travel expenses, sign/flag costs are separate. It's not nothing but I don't know if I'd call it being pair "pretty well". There's probably a chance that if you have a resume that shows leadership in violence and damage you might command a higher rate.

They said it was proceeds of crime.
Somebody from the government said this?
Somebody didn't read the Criminal Code.
 
They said it was proceeds of crime.
Can you provide a source for that? Because you’re asserting something that has a very significant and specific meaning and I suspect some inaccuracy has crept in here somewhere.
 
I did. I didn't know it was an actual employment category. If it were government there would be a nine-digit position code. ZipRecruiter shows "Community Activist" rangine from $21.15-$36.30/hr. US and "Social Activist" averaging $25/hr. I don't know if many work a 40 hour week and if things like travel expenses, sign/flag costs are separate. It's not nothing but I don't know if I'd call it being pair "pretty well". There's probably a chance that if you have a resume that shows leadership in violence and damage you might command a higher rate.


Somebody from the government said this?
Somebody didn't read the Criminal Code.
Who the hell has the funds to pay activists an average of $25?

How committed to the cause is this activist if it's "just another Wednesday..." <Said w/ British accent for some reason> and he's got something else to protest next week, somewhere else?


Genuinely curious as to what organizations are so well funded they can put up ads on recruiting sites to hire s**t disturbers... 😳
 
I'm not sure. My first reaction would be 'no' if those others weren't included in the action and judgement. If I win a judgement against Bob the Plumber, I don't get to go after his customers to fund the judgment.

Winning and collecting are two separate processes. My one and only experience in this area was small claims court years ago and I recall I had to win the judgement then go back and get another order to have judgement enforced.
...sigh...

We talk about streamlining various things in our society...that sounds like it should be one of them...
 
...sigh...

We talk about streamlining various things in our society...that sounds like it should be one of them...
I've thought so too but, quite frankly I know little of the system. It is entirely possible that the ruling court can (and does) order enforcement of the judgement. Small claims court is bit of a separate animal, and it might have been the 'judge' would have ordered enforcement if I had asked it to. Small Claims Court is very 'user driven'.

Enforcement of civil (monetary) orders involve the Sheriff's Office as they are court orders. Traditional law enforcement processes don't apply and there is no 'debtor's prison' anymore.
 
Can you provide a source for that? Because you’re asserting something that has a very significant and specific meaning and I suspect some inaccuracy has crept in here somewhere.
Thats is the official response after freeland and trudeau were questioned about their statements that funds were linked to outside influences and terrorist sources. Many of the open sources are restricted and or magically disappeared. I will try and find when they both stated this.
 
Thats is the official response after freeland and trudeau were questioned about their statements that funds were linked to outside influences and terrorist sources. Many of the open sources are restricted and or magically disappeared. I will try and find when they both stated this.
What you are going to find is that the federal government made announcements about subjecting crowdfunding sites to regulations and mandatory FINTRAC reporting under the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act. Essentially that crowdfunding is now lumped with a multitude of other money services businesses and financially-involved businesses.

To identify money as “proceeds of crime” is a very separate and specific matter, and is determined by police and prosecutors.

You made a claim that I don’t believe you are able to support with facts. The convoy fundraising was not described as “proceeds of crime” by the federal government. The Ontario government did obtain a Criminal Code restraint order against some of the crowdfunding, based on the money being “offence related property” in that it facilitated ongoing offending. That’s not “proceeds of crime”, and was not done by the federal government.
 
I'm not sure. My first reaction would be 'no' if those others weren't included in the action and judgement. If I win a judgement against Bob the Plumber, I don't get to go after his customers to fund the judgment.

Winning and collecting are two separate processes. My one and only experience in this area was small claims court years ago and I recall I had to win the judgement then go back and get another order to have judgement enforced.
My understanding of the civil suit is that it names a bunch of people who did send money but only if they did so after Feb 4th when the protest was declared illegal. I am guessing the funds that are locked up right now are anything that was donated after that timeframe.
 
What you are going to find is that the federal government made announcements about subjecting crowdfunding sites to regulations and mandatory FINTRAC reporting under the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act. Essentially that crowdfunding is now lumped with a multitude of other money services businesses and financially-involved businesses.
The same way they used a OIC to change the CC on firearms. there was no definition and still no definition from what I can read on the term "assault rifle or assault style firearms". But they seem to thrown those terms around often.
To identify money as “proceeds of crime” is a very separate and specific matter, and is determined by police and prosecutors.
or used as key phrases by politicians to push a agenda. The difference between the actual charge and the use of words to make an emotion charge of the public.
You made a claim that I don’t believe you are able to support with facts. The convoy fundraising was not described as “proceeds of crime” by the federal government. The Ontario government did obtain a Criminal Code restraint order against some of the crowdfunding, based on the money being “offence related property” in that it facilitated ongoing offending. That’s not “proceeds of crime”, and was not done by the federal government.
From the article below.
CF quoted as saying "The illegal blockades have highlighted the fact that crowdfunding platforms, and some of the payment service providers they use, are not fully captured under the Proceeds of Crime and Terrorist Financing Act," she said.

"We are making these changes because we know that these platforms are being used to support illegal blockades and illegal activity which is damaging the Canadian economy."


Their are a couple of videos where Jt and CF mentioned proceeds of crime and the convoy fund raising. Just like their play on words when they used the term "assault rifle" then changed it to "assault style rifle" they seeded the words to fit their narrative, then changed when called out.
make no mistake, both JT and CF set the tone and made the accusations. Neither one care about definitions as long as their words enrage the emotions of their supporters to follow their narrative.
I did. I didn't know it was an actual employment category. If it were government there would be a nine-digit position code. ZipRecruiter shows "Community Activist" rangine from $21.15-$36.30/hr. US and "Social Activist" averaging $25/hr. I don't know if many work a 40 hour week and if things like travel expenses, sign/flag costs are separate. It's not nothing but I don't know if I'd call it being pair "pretty well". There's probably a chance that if you have a resume that shows leadership in violence and damage you might command a higher rate.


Somebody from the government said this?
Somebody didn't read the Criminal Code.
We know he never read the firearms act, neither did bill blair or the others involved in their firearms OIC. So why would they read any other part of the CC.
Who the hell has the funds to pay activists an average of $25?
those people who have interests that do not align with ours,
How committed to the cause is this activist if it's "just another Wednesday..." <Said w/ British accent for some reason> and he's got something else to protest next week, somewhere else?
LOL
Genuinely curious as to what organizations are so well funded they can put up ads on recruiting sites to hire s**t disturbers... 😳

Green peace, Oil lobbyists from the US who do not like to pay proper rates for Foreign oil, who now do not want us to sell our oil over seas for the proper rates.
Similar to those funding the protests against logging in BC, thats been going on for many decades. Not as much money needed because lots of actual tree huggers in Bc who have nothing better to do.
Foreign countries in Europe who do not like Canadian Oil, Logs, coal, and other minerals. As it cuts into their market.
There was a study done after the Vancouver Protest (riots) for who the main instigators were, when they linked some of the main members they found out they travel around NA and even parts of Europe as paid instigators. More then a few of them live in the US. Are very carful where and when they protest.
It is a multi million dollar business to provide activists in support or against depending on who is footing the bill.

Follow the money and see where it comes from and goes to. don's trust the government to inform you.
 
The same way they used a OIC to change the CC on firearms. there was no definition and still no definition from what I can read on the term "assault rifle or assault style firearms". But they seem to thrown those terms around often.

or used as key phrases by politicians to push a agenda. The difference between the actual charge and the use of words to make an emotion charge of the public.

From the article below.
CF quoted as saying "The illegal blockades have highlighted the fact that crowdfunding platforms, and some of the payment service providers they use, are not fully captured under the Proceeds of Crime and Terrorist Financing Act," she said.

"We are making these changes because we know that these platforms are being used to support illegal blockades and illegal activity which is damaging the Canadian economy."


Their are a couple of videos where Jt and CF mentioned proceeds of crime and the convoy fund raising. Just like their play on words when they used the term "assault rifle" then changed it to "assault style rifle" they seeded the words to fit their narrative, then changed when called out.
make no mistake, both JT and CF set the tone and made the accusations. Neither one care about definitions as long as their words enrage the emotions of their supporters to follow their narrative.

You’re not listening to a word I’m saying, or putting in a lick of effort to understand why, based on the actual law, I’m saying it.

Your Dunning-Kruger schtick is tiring.
 
You’re not listening to a word I’m saying, or putting in a lick of effort to understand why, based on the actual law, I’m saying it.

Your Dunning-Kruger schtick is tiring.
I under stand what you are saying.

Justin Trudeau and Crysta Freeland both talked about "proceeds of crime" linked to the fund raising efforts for the freedom convoy.
Neither of those two have to live with their mis use of words or legal definitions . I have proven with the terms they both and others used in regards to firearms.
 
I under stand what you are saying.

Justin Trudeau and Crysta Freeland both talked about "proceeds of crime" linked to the fund raising efforts for the freedom convoy.
Neither of those two have to live with their mis use of words or legal definitions . I have proven with the terms they both and others used in regards to firearms.
Holy geez. You actually have not.

« The illegal blockades have highlighted the fact that crowdfunding platforms, and some of the payment service providers they use, are not fully captured under the Proceeds of Crime and Terrorist Financing Act," she said.

What exactly in the English language do you think that statement means?
 
Holy geez. You actually have not.

« The illegal blockades have highlighted the fact that crowdfunding platforms, and some of the payment service providers they use, are not fully captured under the Proceeds of Crime and Terrorist Financing Act," she said.

What exactly in the English language do you think that statement means?
CF quoted as saying "The illegal blockades have highlighted the fact that crowdfunding platforms, and some of the payment service providers they use, are not fully captured under the Proceeds of Crime and Terrorist Financing Act," she said.

"We are making these changes because we know that these platforms are being used to support illegal blockades and illegal activity which is damaging the Canadian economy."
 
The average Canadian doesn't have to account for where strangers vaguely associated with them will take a piss at 3 am when camping in their car.
To be fair, the average protest/march coordinator doesn't either, because the average protest/march doesn't involve camping in cars blocking city streets for weeks on end.
 
CF quoted as saying "The illegal blockades have highlighted the fact that crowdfunding platforms, and some of the payment service providers they use, are not fully captured under the Proceeds of Crime and Terrorist Financing Act," she said.
This means that they were not able to track the money using FINTRAC. That crowd sourcing platforms were not fully captured under the act that regulates that. Meaning there was no way to know if and how the money was being sourced.
"We are making these changes because we know that these platforms are being used to support illegal blockades and illegal activity which is damaging the Canadian economy."
The blockades were designated as illegal. They were still being funded and those transactions needed to be verified under the legislation that governs that.

If I send 20k to my son and transfer that money to him it is supposed to be monitored and verified by the platform/institution that enables it ie my bank because that legislation puts that onus on them. That would be the Proceeds of Crime and Terrorist Financing Act. It verifies and watches to make sure that my transaction isn’t illegal in of itself.

So while the actions of my transaction are monitored by the authority of that act, it does not automatically mean my transaction is one that stems from the proceeds of crime or is being used to fund terrorism or money laundering.

Again, I’m not sure what you think you proved. Yes, CF mentioned the act. And the gap in the act. But she didn’t say what you think she said.
 
This means that they were not able to track the money using FINTRAC. That crowd sourcing platforms were not fully captured under the act that regulates that. Meaning there was no way to know if and how the money was being sourced.

The blockades were designated as illegal. They were still being funded and those transactions needed to be verified under the legislation that governs that.

If I send 20k to my son and transfer that money to him it is supposed to be monitored and verified by the platform/institution that enables it ie my bank because that legislation puts that onus on them. That would be the Proceeds of Crime and Terrorist Financing Act. It verifies and watches to make sure that my transaction isn’t illegal in of itself.

So while the actions of my transaction are monitored by the authority of that act, it does not automatically mean my transaction is one that stems from the proceeds of crime or is being used to fund terrorism or money laundering.

Again, I’m not sure what you think you proved. Yes, CF mentioned the act. And the gap in the act. But she didn’t say what you think she said.
So if the person says the term proceeds of crime, then uses that to justify the changes when stating this
because we know that these platforms are being used to support illegal blockades and illegal activity.
This is in DIRECT relation to the convoy funding.

They are both on camera stating this. It will take some time to find the clips. They seem to have disappeared off my links
 
If I send 20k to my son and transfer that money to him it is supposed to be monitored and verified by the platform/institution that enables it ie my bank because that legislation puts that onus on them. That would be the Proceeds of Crime and Terrorist Financing Act. It verifies and watches to make sure that my transaction isn’t illegal in of itself.

So while the actions of my transaction are monitored by the authority of that act, it does not automatically mean my transaction is one that stems from the proceeds of crime or is being used to fund terrorism or money laundering.

Nice disclaimer ;)
 
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