Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[dimsum]

That sounds like the long game to me.

It would be, if it was just one govt party doing it for decades.

So unless all govts in Canada have been trying to destroy Canada’s standing in the world, I wouldn’t say it is a coordinated “long game”. Hell, the CPC, LPC, NDP, BQ, and etc couldn’t coordinate a three-legged race together with instruction by squads.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It would be, if it was just one govt party doing it for decades.

So unless all govts in Canada have been trying to destroy Canada’s standing in the world, I wouldn’t say it is a coordinated “long game”. Hell, the CPC, LPC, NDP, BQ, and etc couldn’t coordinate a three-legged race together with instruction by squads.

I think there has probably been a long game at play aimed at destabilizing Western (NATO) Democracies by various members of our foes.

 

[OldSolduer]

I think there has probably been a long game at play aimed at destabilizing Western (NATO) Democracies by various members of our foes.

Stalin always said we the West (us) had useful fools they could rely on .

And we have a number of those in Canada

 

[YZT580]

What in the actual hell does this have to do with me? See below.

I'll say it again then.

And to be clear, this is ALL I am saying.

@YZT580 implied (in the original post that this is a reply to) that the reason the protestors were being branded as "Nazis" (and racists) was because they were "loud and obnoxious".

I countered, stating that the reason the government and media associated the convoy protestors with "Nazis" was instead because of an actual Nazi flag (and a Nazi swastika drawn on an upside down Canadian flag) as well as several Confederate flags seen at the protest.

That's. Literally. It.

I am not stating the opinion that because there was one Nazi flag there that the whole group were Nazis.

I am not claiming their was more than one Nazi flag there.

I am not claiming whether or not the guy with the Nazi flag was a legitimate supporter of Nazism, or just a provacateur.

-------------------

Or put more clearly, just in case, because no one seems to be listening to me:

Government A says that Group B are assholes because of X.

@YZT580 comes along and says "Government A says that Group B are assholes because of Y!"

I come along and say "Actually @YZT580, it wasn't because of Y, it was because of X."

And then you all came along and start shouting "Oh, so YOU (@Lumber ) think that Group B are assholes because of X?!"

time to listen to the words of Johnny Cash: The one on the right. Just to laugh.
As for the flag or flags, the nazi branding was only one facet of the attacks that I mentioned. Oh well. Shouldn't ever allow my thoughts to drift out of focus. I always get caught out on a detail. So how's this; none of the actions by the truckers up until they arrived in Ottawa were justification for the verbal abuse and name calling that was heaped upon them by our beloved leader. None of their actions after arriving in Ottawa were justification for the legal attacks that they have received since especially and particularly when the actions taken against other protest groups are used for comparison. No one deserves to have their assets frozen for donating to a legal cause.

 

[CBH99]

The best part about conspiracy theories is that one assumes govts are working “the long game” when it’s pretty obvious that every single govt has been trying to make it to the next election.

Most of us here have been in the CAF and see how bureaucracy works within one govt department. I’m not convinced that the rest of the GoC is magically that much better that it can sustain a years-long “long game”.

All of your examples have been happening before the current Trudeau govt, and not only in Canada. I remember being told that our “national pride and morale” were being destroyed in the 1990s.

They were being destroyed in the 1990's

And fair enough when it comes to government competency. As a former CAF guy who periodically worked with other departments, I can fully get behind your statement of governments just trying to survive until the next election.

We've both witnessed it and experienced it live.



This WEF phenomenon is different though...or I have a hunch it is, anyway...

Having our Deputy PM sit on their board of directors doesn't make me feel any better about it...

Introducing a carbon tax that everybody (even economists) was opposed to...on Canada Day? I don't feel that was an accidentally slip that was only noticed afterwards...

Invoking the Emergencies Act? Discussed at length elsewhere, I know...but standing down only a day before it was up for judicial review comes across like they knew it wouldn't pass muster...

The payment of hundreds of millions of dollars for various media outlets to bail them out? And their subsequent relative silence when important bills get pushed through, such as internet censorship legislation?

Their lack of in depth coverage of various local to Canada situations is scary...


The abuse of FINTRAC under the guise of the Emergencies Act to freeze people's bank accounts?

The PM reserving the right to pick the person who will investigate him? And...surprise...he did nothing wrong!!

Adding a trillion dollars to the national debt, essentially doubling it?

We are more taxed now than at any other time in recent memory, yet somehow the government blew through all of that money and still had to borrow a trillion dollars ontop of it...

What do we have to show for it as a country?


The recent hiring freeze of any new judges, at a time when crime is on the ride.

The introduction of MAID availability to people who aren't terminally ill...

Shutting down Parliamentary Committees specifically set up to look into questionable government decisions or practices?

Firing the Attorney General for doing her job and telling you not to break the law to help your buddies who broke the law...





Sure. Government tends to be incompetent.
And you are right, most of the time they are doing everything they can to avoid trouble and make it to the next election - no argument there


But the stuff I listed above is a fraction of what we've witnessed or experienced since Trudeau took office, that we didn't witness or experience before he took office...

And he's given me absolutely zero reason after 8 years of this nonsense to believe that he intends on cleaning up his act anytime soon


My 2 cents anyway

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

No one should ever vote for a Govt. [of any party] of two or more terms who still make election promises instead of running on their record. You had eight years to do that, why isn't it already done??

 

[KeLouJoH]

We are more taxed now than at any other time in recent memory, yet somehow the government blew through all of that money and still had to borrow a trillion dollars ontop of it...

Sir, I absolutely agree with everything you said.

I just wanted to comment on the above, I have read that politicians tend to be more financially irresponsible than the citizens that they rule, and one way this manifests is that they tend to rack up national debts. They do this because while the debt and the servicing of said debt is shared equally among all citizens, leaders nevertheless have the power to disproportionately reward their cronies with money from the debt. And they don't ever worry about how we as a nation are going to have to pay down the debt, because that is the problem for the next administration.

 

[Kirkhill]

It would be, if it was just one govt party doing it for decades.

So unless all govts in Canada have been trying to destroy Canada’s standing in the world, I wouldn’t say it is a coordinated “long game”. Hell, the CPC, LPC, NDP, BQ, and etc couldn’t coordinate a three-legged race together with instruction by squads.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. - per Hanlon.

On the other hand - they all went to the same school and learned from the same book.

 

[KeLouJoH]

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

That's what evil people want you to think. They don't want you to notice their intention to harm you.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

They were being destroyed in the 1990's

And fair enough when it comes to government competency. As a former CAF guy who periodically worked with other departments, I can fully get behind your statement of governments just trying to survive until the next election.

We've both witnessed it and experienced it live.



This WEF phenomenon is different though...or I have a hunch it is, anyway...

Having our Deputy PM sit on their board of directors doesn't make me feel any better about it...

Introducing a carbon tax that everybody (even economists) was opposed to...on Canada Day? I don't feel that was an accidentally slip that was only noticed afterwards...

Invoking the Emergencies Act? Discussed at length elsewhere, I know...but standing down only a day before it was up for judicial review comes across like they knew it wouldn't pass muster...

The payment of hundreds of millions of dollars for various media outlets to bail them out? And their subsequent relative silence when important bills get pushed through, such as internet censorship legislation?

Their lack of in depth coverage of various local to Canada situations is scary...


The abuse of FINTRAC under the guise of the Emergencies Act to freeze people's bank accounts?

The PM reserving the right to pick the person who will investigate him? And...surprise...he did nothing wrong!!

Adding a trillion dollars to the national debt, essentially doubling it?

We are more taxed now than at any other time in recent memory, yet somehow the government blew through all of that money and still had to borrow a trillion dollars ontop of it...

What do we have to show for it as a country?


The recent hiring freeze of any new judges, at a time when crime is on the ride.

The introduction of MAID availability to people who aren't terminally ill...

Shutting down Parliamentary Committees specifically set up to look into questionable government decisions or practices?

Firing the Attorney General for doing her job and telling you not to break the law to help your buddies who broke the law...





Sure. Government tends to be incompetent.
And you are right, most of the time they are doing everything they can to avoid trouble and make it to the next election - no argument there


But the stuff I listed above is a fraction of what we've witnessed or experienced since Trudeau took office, that we didn't witness or experience before he took office...

And he's given me absolutely zero reason after 8 years of this nonsense to believe that he intends on cleaning up his act anytime soon


My 2 cents anyway

Her corporate record at Reuters was also a disaster. She basically got given control of a massive project and ran her department in to the ground...

I guess being a terrible steward of her shareholders money makes her a perfect candidate for Canadian Politics!

 

[Brad Sallows]

Milton Friedman observed that there are four general quadrants for spending formed by a rudimentary categorization into your own/others' money, spent on yourself/others. Spending other people's money on things for other people provides almost no incentive for people to be careful, and that is basically what social spending is.

 

[OldSolduer]

Her corporate record at Reuters was also a disaster. She basically got given control of a massive project and ran her department in to the ground...

I guess being a terrible steward of her shareholders money makes her a perfect candidate for Canadian Politics!

Hey wait a dog gone minute!!!

Isn't she the Minister of Finance? AND Deputy PM???

 

[medicineman]

Her corporate record at Reuters was also a disaster. She basically got given control of a massive project and ran her department in to the ground...

I guess being a terrible steward of her shareholders money makes her a perfect candidate for Canadian Politics!

She should be in Healthcare Administration...

 

[Dana381]

Perhaps you should reread what I said. There was never any inclination that the GoC had any opposition for the U.S. policy, by all accounts (including the governments own statements) they were emphatically for the measures. And actually, if you look at the timeline the U.S. did provide exceptions to Canadian truckers for the first 2 years of the pandemic. What about the proposed interprovincial mandate that was also in the news at the time... was that the U.S.'s fault too? What about the mandates for federal employees and federally regulated industries? What about domestic travel restrictions? Statements made about whether the country should "tolerate" the unvaccinated minority, or if they deserve to have rights?

The "freedom convoy" was about opposition to government mandates in general, as well as the 'othering' of unvaccinated individuals, not just about the U.S.'s border restrictions. And it was primarily about mandates from the start (see CBC article in my last post). Truckers were used as a symbol of the 'final straw'. First you mischaracterise what was being protested then dismiss it as outside of the GoC's control, as if it wasn't the PM's own policies that they were upset about... it's a classic straw man argument you're making (or merely parroting).

As well, Canadians also have constitutional rights, including those found in The Charter as and The Bill of Rights. Most people are not well versed in our constitutional framework in general, doesn't mean their grievances aren't valid.

IIRC the US border mandates were levied in response to our border mandates. And the consensus was if we dropped them the US would follow suit.
I did a quick Google search but it was flooded with articles about the mandates ending and I couldn't find what I was looking for.

absolutely not. I am saying that before they even arrived in Ottawa there should have been meaningful discussions outlining a diplomatic approach to what was developing into a confrontational situation. Long before they arrived in Ottawa the GOC knew that they had a group of angry citizens that had a grievance they wished to present. No laws of any significance had been broken. It was not to late to privately set up a venue for allowing them to air their beefs and reply in a civilized fashion. Instead you had the GOC verbally abusing and condemning anyone associated with the drivers long before they were anything more than an addendum to the six o'clock news. They met with BLM during their demonstrations which were anything but peaceful. They have allowed far greater anarchic actions by the Palestinian protesters than the drivers ever took, they allowed the Indigenous folks to burn down a bunch of churches with only a tut tut so yes they should have taken action by showing a little compassion for the drivers. The first step in diffusing a confrontation is to show a little bit of understanding, the way I am in replying to you instead of lashing out and calling you all kinds of names and questioning your upbringing, your parentage, and your beliefs. (which I am not by the way)

Exactly what I was trying to say but you presented it much better than me.

 

[FSTO]

Today at Parliament Hill

 

[medicineman]

Today at Parliament Hill
View attachment 82907

They're missing the sign that says "D.A.M. - Mothers Against Dyslexia"...

 

[daftandbarmy]

Today at Parliament Hill
View attachment 82907

The Australian contingent

 

[Remius]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lawsuit-against-convoy-organizers-moves-forward-1.7106554

Looks like the civil case will proceed.

 

[brihard]

Looks like two of the Coutts Four took plea deals today. Chris Lysak pled down to a weapons possession charge, and Jerry Morin to conspiracy to traffic firearms. Both were released on a sentence of time served on joint crown/defence submissions. Pretty solid plea deal for both, with trial fast approaching. I’ll be curious to see if the other two take a deal rather than rolling the dice on the conspiracy to murder charges at trial.

 

[childs56]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lawsuit-against-convoy-organizers-moves-forward-1.7106554

Looks like the civil case will proceed.

I actually like this, this will set the steps in motion to sue every protester who cuts into business by shutting them down and or destroying property. I hope the liberal supporters realize the storm they have started.