DEO or ROTP

[steve_TDP]

Hey guys.. just in my 3rd year at the UofA, after reading about the overwhelming negative reports of non-success and non-cooperation on the ROTP process, (I'm actually quite embarrassed to hear about them, especially compared to our neighboring allies) I have decided to not bother with this stage and just go DEO.

Just wondering if anyone knows if 'grades' are looked at for being accepted in DEO. Or at that point is it.. if u have a degree, then you have a degree?? And acceptance is based on a full applicant analysis?

 

[Shamrock]

...the overwhelming negative reports of non-success and non-cooperation on the ROTP process, (I'm actually quite embarrassed to hear about them, especially compared to our neighboring allies) .

Huh? 

Just wondering if anyone knows if 'grades' are looked at for being accepted in DEO. Or at that point is it.. if u have a degree, then you have a degree?? And acceptance is based on a full applicant analysis?

I can't say for certain, so confirm with a recruiter, but I'm pretty sure grades are reviewed as part of your application.  Including high school and any other post-secondary. 

 

[scoutfinch]

Donning my *crappy writing* decoder ring, let me take a stab at translating this to English:

I think what he is trying to say is that his grades sucked so he couldn't go ROTP (despite the fact that he heard about people in other countries with lower marks being accepted to their respective ROTP programmes). 

So, instead of ROTP, he is going to apply DEO once he graduates hoping that they won't look at his crappy marks but worries about the *full applicant analysis*.

 

[George Wallace]

Now this is starting to sound like a "Clarica Commercial".

 

[scoutfinch]

I just hope they wear gloves while conducting the *full applicant anaylsis*. 

I am not sure if it sounds dirty or if it sounds like it hurts...

 

[GAP]

I just hope they wear gloves while conducting the *full applicant anaylsis*. 

I am not sure if it sounds dirty or if it sounds like it hurts...

Scoutfinch....you have a warped mind.....tis a wonderful thing, what?  ;D

 

[Magravan]

As a DEO applicant, they check grades. It is not the entire score, but it is a portion... Brutal grades wont completely disqualify you from the CF, but it might limit your acceptance to certain areas. And as for DEO, the type of degree will vary your eligibility to certain trades. So in no way does having a degree simply count as a checkmark on a long list. It has a point value, and affects your application by bringing the total points in an upward or downward direction, depending.

 

[scoutfinch]

Magravan:

Stay in your lane.  You are only able to relate your personal experience as you are simply an applicant in the hopper with the rest of us.  You are not a recruiter.  Perhaps you should leave the recruiting questions to those trained to answer them.

 

[Grahamg]

In response to admission to ROTP and DEO. My recruiter said that on the bottom line university marks have almost zero meaning for a DEO applicant. I believe him because I was actually accepted to both programs. I was accepted to ROTP near the end of my 3rd year when i had just under a 70% average. I told my recruiter that I could just finish up a 3 year degree as opposed to a 4 year degree and he suggested I do that and just go DEO. I finished, sent in my marks, overage 67% average and was just given an DEO for infantry. The recruiter said I needed to do an updated physical test but I never did and they still accepted me. I think the process is alot more slack that some of these guys make it sound

 

[kincanucks]

My recruiter said that on the bottom line university marks have almost zero meaning for a DEO applicant.

I guarantee that your recruiter has never seen the scoring sheet for assessing applicants or he wouldn't have made such an asinine statement.  Your marks definitely count along with your CFAT score and your interview.  The reason you got in with a 67% average is that Infantry is desperate so i is not something I would want to brag about.

HH

 

[Magravan]

Magravan:

Stay in your lane.  You are only able to relate your personal experience as you are simply an applicant in the hopper with the rest of us.  You are not a recruiter.  Perhaps you should leave the recruiting questions to those trained to answer them.

Scoutfinch,

I got my information from Kincanucks on a separate thread that wasn't related to this particular topic, just happened to tangent on it. As far as I know, posting valid information from a recruiter as a DEO applicant, I am in my lane. If you do not see it that way, I would happy to discuss it with you in PMs.

 

[scoutfinch]

Then acknowledge where your information comes from so that it has some credibility. 

 

[Magravan]

At the time, I couldn't recall the source of the original comment, whether it was mentioned in my application, my interview or (as I realized after seeing Kincanucks later post), from a topic on Army.ca .. I will make efforts to point people in the direction of where I got my information the next time that I post.

 

[Meridian]

Kincanucks already answered, but, anyone who has actually filled out the application form (and paid attention) to the fields would note that when you indicate your degree, you have to indicate where your GPA falls  (There are three 'categories' here, I believe).

Kincanucks, do they require a transcript, or just to see/certify the copy of the Degree?


As for all the problems with ROTP; I don't really see what you are relating too. However, if you are that close to completing a degree, financially it would be in your better interest (I would think, at least it is for me) to enrol as a DEO, as the DEO payscales start at a higher level than ROTP.

 

[kincanucks]

Kincanucks, do they require a transcript, or just to see/certify the copy of the Degree?

Well the last time I looked at a degree it didn't indicate the GPA or any other marks so yes an applicant has to submit a copy of the transcript and the degree.

 

[Kid_X]

financially it would be in your better interest (I would think, at least it is for me) to enrol as a DEO, as the DEO payscales start at a higher level than ROTP.

"Ummmm", they do?   :-\

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/OfficerRegFPayRate_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28

Row section A = ROTP
Row section C = DEO

Check for 2LT.

Here's the link to the thread that that pops out of.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/41837.0.html

This guy didn't make assumptions, he asked.  He also got a few answers, this one probably applies best.

That's exactly right. Even though ROTP 2nd LT's were in 'school' for four years, they are still considered CF members for four years and their pay increase reflects that accordingly. Another examply of this is when an NCM reservist who is (I think) a MCpl or higher transfers over to ROTP. Because as a MCpl he makes more than a 1st year OCdt he doesn't switch over to the OCdt pay scale, he keeps his NCM pay until his OCdt or 2LT pay meets or passes his NCM pay. Okay this isnt an exact comparaison, but it does show how our pay system reflects service already commited. You are not going to putforth 4 years of service as an NCM and receive less pay in your 4th, 5th etc. years because you switch to ROTP.

 

[Meridian]

Kid X - I can make more in the civilian world completing my degree than I can under ROTP on the salary that ROTP pays an OCdt.  (now I wont get into whether people go work second jobs while being at ROTP civy U, because the the last time I asked officially about that I was told it was generally not authorized).

Thus financially it is better for me (as I mentioned above, in quotations, that my comment applied to me).  I should, however have stipulaetd (my apologies), that I was assuming he was completing part time or working a civilian job - indeed I probably assumed too much there. 

 

[SupersonicMax]

You still have to pay for you degree and our 4 years as ROTP counts towards the 25 years for the pension.  I make more than a DEO as a 2Lt and I was paid during my degree (didn't really have to pay for rent or rations or it was taken off my pay but I still had around 600$ left in my pockets at the end of the month).  So, generally, I think ROTP is a better deal than DEO...

Max

 

[Quag]

If you look at the broad picture, Meridian, financially it is far better to go ROTP.  Just look at the pay scales when you are a 2LT.  An ROTP person who is a 2LT is making a substantial amount more than you.  Plus, ROTP does not have to pay for school, and instead gets paid to go etc.. etc...

 

[Kid_X]

"Kid X - I can make more in the civilian world completing my degree than I can under ROTP on the salary that ROTP pays an OCdt.  (now I wont get into whether people go work second jobs while being at ROTP civy U, because the the last time I asked officially about that I was told it was generally not authorized)."

If you go into a civilian line of work after paying for your own degree, you are not considered a DEO because you are not joining the military.  Am I correct on this?  Financially, ROTP makes more sense. If it did not, why would anyone do it?