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Cooks ( merged )

  • Thread starter RebornXmetalhead
  • Start date
Steel Badger said:
Just as a point:  the cook trade is currently closed.

NCM SEP (subsidized education plan) positions for cook are still available. To be considered for NCM sep you must have unconditional acceptance to an accredited school program. ( See CFRC for the list)

Thanks for the info Steel Badger. How often are trades closed for, or is there no telling? Is there a site where I can keep checking to see when it opens back up and apply right away? Or can I apply now and will be notified when a cook spot opens?


kkwd said:
Read this Thread to see what someone else experienced in the cook trade.

Thanks for the link kkwd, interesting. Have a better understanding of what purple trade means now.
 
No harm in procuring all necessary paper work in going in tomorrow / this week to see what you can do. Although this isn't "my lane" ;D so i'll just wish ya all the best!!
 
LossStop said:
Thanks for the info Steel Badger. How often are trades closed for, or is there no telling? Is there a site where I can keep checking to see when it opens back up and apply right away? Or can I apply now and will be notified when a cook spot opens?


From what I've heard elsewhere on Army.ca the opening and closing of trades can happen quite suddenly, now I'm not sure if this is the case but as McD said nothing wrong with paying them a visit or even a phone call.  I usually find the recruiting centres very helpful. :)    Either way best of luck and sorry for the attitude earlier.
 
Rogo

Trades do have vacancies appear and dissappear with amazing rapidity. In the main, only those who have been merit listed ( or close too it) get the offer, especially in the current situation of few slots and a hockey-sock full of applicant's for each.)
In addition, we will NOT process an applicant for an already closed trade. We may open your file, but that is where it stops. No CFAT, Interview etc.

FWIW, I do work at CFRC.


Cheers

SB
 
So if someone joins as a cook at the age of 18 is it true that the navy will pay for him/her to go to college before serving their time?
 
Call your local recruiting office or drop in and ask for papers related to the Cook trade.  Also most information can also come on the Forces website.    95% of education and recruiting questions on Army.ca will get the answer "Call the Recruiting Centre."  Just a heads up.
 
Hey folks, I am sure someone has probably answered some of my questions before and for that I humbly apologize. I tried to get some of these questions answered through the "Ask a Recruiter" option on the Forces website, but frankly their answer was very vague. I suppose since actual CF Cooks frequent this site I may get some specific answers. Ok so back story, went to George Brown for Culinary School quite a few years ago, have since been working in Fine Dining places and with some of Canada's best Chefs. Close to done the hours for an apprenticeship but havent signed up as one yet. Now being a Cook or Chef especially in Fine Dining is perhaps one of thee most brutal jobs to date paying minimum wage, with no benefits, often working for free to "get the job done". Well I am more then halfway to thirty and starting to have to think about magical things like the future. As a cook the Forces seems to pay better then pretty much anywhere.

Firstly, I am wondering about the subsidized education. I am missing a course for my college papers and am wondering if the Forces will pay for me to finish it. I was told from a few friends of mine who currently serve that with prior training you can get a promotion to Corporal very quickly. Not that I care much about rank, but money is nice. Also on that note, looking at the pay scale there is a big "-" under Basic. Does this mean that during Basic Training you dont earn any money? And if I shell out on finishing my college papers when do you recieve your 10k reimbursement?

Part of Canada's Apprenticeship program entails that the apprentice learns different aspects of cooking (ie Stock making, butchery, sauces, etc) To what aspect does the Forces do things in house? Would I be expected to skin and debone a ton of fish for the troops, or pull them out of the freezer to defrost prepackaged? Does a Forces kitchen do things like make stock? I understand that depending on the situation the enviroment and needs of the cooks change, but I am wondering about a more 9-5 scenario. Also, I did read that depending one where your posted you do formal dinners (which is what I am used to) how exactly do you get these postings? Is it based on rank and time in, or skill, or luck?

I am a little worried that I might be selling out my knowledge and specific talents for extra cash (dont get me wrong Ive never cooked for 1500 people and THAT is a talent). I was very depressed to learn that Cook and Steward are the lowest trades for which you have to be qualified in the Forces, which worries the hell of out of me! I would just like to get some insight from someone that is currently a Cook so that I know what I am getting myself into! Thank You!
 
I'm not a cook, but I have been in charge of cooks.  Yours is a common dilemma.  Altough there are master chefs who make a lot of money (far more than any cook in the CF ever will), they are few and far between and most cooks on civvy street work very long hours for very little money and not much thanks.  On the other hand, military cooks are much appreciated and valued (although sometimes you may feel otherwise).  A good meal can make a world of difference in the morale of folks who are working under crappy conditions and a long way from home.  You will also get paid reasonably well and have a pension, vacation and medical/dental benefits as well.  Then there are the opportunities to travel to exotic locations... ;D  However, to answer some of your questions:

To the best of my knowledge, if you come in as a "skilled applicant," you can receive credit for previous training, which may effect your promotion to corporal (or leading seaman in the Navy).  Check with your recruiting centre for up to date information on that.  If you are pursuing further education that is directly related to your military occupation, there is reimbursement available.  Normally, reimbursement for a course is only issued once you have successfully completed it (i.e. we don't pay your tuition and then watch you fail the course).  We don't generally reimburse you for training completed before you joined.  Reimbursement is also available in some cases for education that is not directly related to your occupation, but that's a different question than the one you asked.  It is also possible that some of your CF training will cover the things you're missing, in which case you might not have to pay anything.  There of plenty of red seal chefs in the CF who have gotten there credentials while serving.  Once you're in the CF, the Base Personnel Section Officer manages reimbursement for outside education programs at the local level.  Your training authority manages all in-service coursing.

I'm not sure what pay scale you were looking at or where in the scale you were looking, but yes, you get paid while undergoing training.  After you are enrolled (i.e. raise your hand and repeat after me...), there may be a brief period of Leave Without Pay before you start basic training, but once you report for that, you get paid from there on.

We do all kinds of cooking in house.  Although we do make use of pre-packaged items, we also do a lot from scratch.  We have had an on-again, off-again approach to butchering and I'm not sure where we are with that right now, but we do virtually everything else and everywhere else!  As a cook you can find yourself working in a huge kitchen on a static base, doing the same thing in a much smaller galley in a ship (where everything moves - sometimes violently), or in a field kitchen (essentially a trailer) in the middle of knowhere.  CF cooks cook for hundreds, if not thousands, daily and take great pride in the quality of the food they produce and it is frankly some of the best military cuisine in the world.  Our allies love to eat with us.  I've never seen a powdered egg in a CF kitchen and have enjoyed fresh baked bread, pastries and cakes both in the field and in the middle of the ocean (although cakes at sea can sometimes be a little lop-sided :nod:)

We do formal dinners all the time and all CF cooks are expected to take part.  There are some specialty jobs (e.g. VIP flight crews), but candidates for these come from the mainstream and will return to the mainstream after they've finished that posting.  Don't worry too much about the enrolement standards for cooks.  Yes, they're on the lower end, but once you're in, you will see that the cream rises to the top.  Good cooks with good leadership and management skills will progress.  The down side is that the higher in rank you go, the less cooking you will actually do, but that all depends on your desires and ambition.

As for working hours, there is no nine to five.  This is an organization that is obsessed with starting early in the day and breakfast starts before that.  So, there will be times when you will have to be up at 0400 to ensure the meal line can start at 0600.  Mind you, we tend to work the  shifts so that there are some guys who come in early and go home early and others who come in late and then leave late (sometimes supper doesn't end until 1900).  There WILL be long days and you will have to work weekends.  However, for the most part, when you're on a base, you will be able to live a pretty normal life, with days off etc.  You will work harder and longer in operational units.  On the plus side, there are sometimes opportunities to make extra money doing some of those formal dinners and the like.

In summary, being a cook in the CF offers many challenges and oppportunities, but it is not for the faint of heart.  Bad or lazy cooks get identified pretty quickly and gotten rid of (we don't actually throw them overboard, but I've heard that threat... :mad:)If you're up to it though, it can be pretty rewarding.  I've never met a CF cook at the end of his/her time in the CF lamenting that it was all wasted.
 
Thank you for such a detailed reply, it did answer a great deal of my questions, and have eased my trepidation about applying quite a bit. Does anyone know if the Cook trade is open?
 
It's not one of the "In Demand" jobs on the Forces.ca website, so chances are that it is closed. You'll never find out for sure, however, unless you call or visit the Recruiting Center. They make take you since you're at least semi-skilled entry (don't quote me on that though).
 
twistedbydesign said:
Thank you for such a detailed reply, it did answer a great deal of my questions, and have eased my trepidation about applying quite a bit. Does anyone know if the Cook trade is open?

I think it's outstanding that you are considering this profession.  Difficult to express the profound respect and gratitude I have towards CF Cooks.  All the best, Dan.
 
Twisted,

I am not a cook in the military, but I am in charge of the cooks on a minor warship (i.e. Small ship with 3 cooks, unlike a frigate or destroyer with a much larger brigade and more space)  So, my comments are not reflective of the entire trade (i.e cooks posted to a base or to a field unit).

However.....I graduated form GB's culinary management program in 2006.  I had the privilege of mentoring under John Higgins, doing my stage at George under Lorenzo Loseto and some experience cooking for Lynn Crawford, Teddy Coraddo and Brad Long in my brief culinary career to date. (I was lucky enough to land a shore posting in a job in Toronto that I could (and did) do in my sleep while I devoted my free time to earning $350/week while giving 70 hrs a week to Chef Lorenzo. So I know where you are coming from about fine dining and the hardships that go with it.

You will not find anything approaching what you know on anything resembling a regular basis.  Ever.  I have never seen truffles, fois, beef cheeks, taro root or even trumpet mushrooms in a military kitchen.  Its hard to simmer a stock for 9 hrs when you have three or more services in a day.  Burner space is at a premium – all the time.  It's impossible to have daily fresh deliveries when you are at sea for weeks at a time with no replenishment.  Its hard to do what you have done in your career, when, as Pusser pointed out, your entire kitchen is pitching back and forth in heavy seas.

You WILL do institutional-style cooking as the norm.  Steam lines.  Lots of frozen and dry goods – they keep longer and are easier to make into a meal when your day is filled with all sorts of things other than being in the kitchen , like drills or worse.  Powdered bases because you don't have the space for as much fresh stock as you would need to feed hundreds of people – again – three times a day.  You won't work with the same kind of people you are used to.  They won't be as insane or have the same kinds of crazy lifestyles, but they likely won't be as single-mindedly driven to produce top flight food, every hour of every day out of fear that Chef will fire your a** right off the line if you don't.  Not everywhere, at least.  If you apply yourself, you will get a chance to compete in the CF culinary olympics and work with those like minded people.  By and large, however I have met very, very few people with experience like yours.  Those I have met are nearly revered in the CF and manage to create insane stuff in ridiculous circumstances.  EVERYBODY knows and remembers their meals.

However, judging by your original post, it appears to me that you might have had your fill of the thrill and that you are looking for the bennies.  Those my friend, you will find in spades.  Yes, you get paid in basic training.  Compared to what you and I are used to earning, you will feel rich by comparison.  You wont spend 14 hr days, 6 days a week, 350 days a year in the kitchen.  You might spend those same hours doing a variety of things on a shorter term basis, but that is not the norm. And the Chef isn't going to freak out at the first opportunity simply because business is down.  Business is never down in the CF

In addition, you will be serving food for really, really hungry, hard working folks, for whom their next meal is not only the possible highlight of their day, but the perhaps the first hot food that have had in a while.  Poeple go nuts at the smell of fresh bread first thing in the morning at sea.  There is something infinitely more gratifying about that than cooking a work of art for some a**hole who sends back his meal because he doesn't know the beef sashimi is supposed to be served rare or because he wants to impress his/her guests with their clout.

Pusser is correct, it is not straight-up 9 – 5, but it is far less insane that what you have come to expect as “normal” to date.  Yeah, I know about “working for free” and I remember all of the days off everyone in my brigade was owed – because we almost NEVER closed, so Chef couldn't ever give us our days off.  Not so in the CF.  You will be amazed at how different it is – pleasantly so.

This is not an indictment of CF cooks.  But I can appreciate your experience to date and want you to know how different it will be from your previous life.  But that may be just what you are looking for.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions about the lifestyle.

Regards,

MARS
edited for spelling and grammar
 
Wow, that was the exact thing I needed to hear! Thanks MARS! I am most likely going to apply sometime this week and hope they're hiring cooks. I really do love feeding people, but even at twenty six the fine dining gig is really starting to take its toll! (I lost 40 pounds within the first three months when I started, and was pretty darn skinny BEFORE at that!) You would be happy to know that Chef Higgins is still the BIG man on campus (pun intended). As much fun as the insane a la carte fine dining goes, I think ive had my fill of it, learned what I could and now its time to move on to learning a different aspect of the industry. Thank You so much for your replies everyone you have been much more helpful then I could have hoped for! Hopefully my burned out chef body can take the rigors of basic! Thanks Again

 
I'm not a cook either but thought i would add a little to what has been said.

On my second tour, my unit had a cook who was a miracle worked. He had been a chef on civvy street and then joined the CF. This guy was the best moral booster there was. He could make a fantastic meal out of anything. It was so good that Canadian troops from other camps, and also foreign troops from around the country, after word spread, would make excuses to come to our camp for a meal.
 
MARS said:
You will not find anything approaching what you know on anything resembling a regular basis.  Ever.  I have never seen truffles, fois, beef cheeks, taro root or even trumpet mushrooms in a military kitchen.  Its hard to simmer a stock for 9 hrs when you have three or more services in a day.  Burner space is at a premium – all the time.  It's impossible to have daily fresh deliveries when you are at sea for weeks at a time with no replenishment.  Its hard to do what you have done in your career, when, as Pusser pointed out, your entire kit hen is pitching back and forth in heavy seas.

Admittedly, these things are not on the steam line on a regular basis, but they are not unheard of either.  I've seen all sorts of things turn up at mess dinners.  Sometimes the cooks will also go out of their way to find special things and bring them into the most unlikely places.  The cooks who are innovative and clever will find themselves progressing quickly and VERY popular.  I remember being at sea one time when the Captain just HAD to have crème brulé.  This was a challenge considering we didn't have any cream on board.  Luckily the helicopter came in handy that day and fresh cream was procured and delivered!  Before anyone gets too out of shape, the helicopter was going ashore for other (really important and fully justifiable) reasons.  I just happened to take advantage of the opportunity.  No additional tax dollars were killed or injured in the making of this dessert! ;D

I would not worry about your skills going to waste.  You will get a chance to strut your stuff, but you'll also find that your skills will be much more appreciated.
 
Good day,

Looking for opinions/info/thoughts on the subject.

I understand that it varies from course to course, but i would like to hear on average what to expect.

For example reveille, to lights out, leave pass, training etc.

Thanks for the insight.
 
Also, another thing to add:

I'm aware that all barracks are different. With that said, from what you know, how does the internet work?
 
JackThompson said:
Also, another thing to add:

I'm aware that all barracks are different. With that said, from what you know, how does the internet work?

Well, in the beginning, there were ones and zeroes, two tin cans, and a really long wire....

Oh, you mean how does internet work in the barracks.  If it's like any other base, you have the option of having it installed in your room, or using a rocket stick.

Have you searched for everything else you wanted to know?  Like this... 
 
Occam said:
Well, in the beginning, there were ones and zeroes, two tin cans, and a really long wire....

Oh, you mean how does internet work in the barracks.  If it's like any other base, you have the option of having it installed in your room, or using a rocket stick.

Have you searched for everything else you wanted to know?  Like this... 

Cheeky, but very clever.  ;D ;D ;D

Thanks for the link. I have used the search bar, which seems to be incredibly common for people to NOT use it. Unfortunately, the information i seek doesn't seem existant after a few pages unless i missed something which is entirely possible.
 
Your course likely won't be much (any) different than anyone elses or any other trades. You'll be subject to the same restrictions, inspections and schedules to most extent. If and when you start training in the kitchens, you'll likely become subject to shift schedules, I'm guessing.
 
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