AK47 vs. C7 or M16

[Pugnacious]

Is the cleaning and maint' the same for both versions of the C7 mentioned?

Cheers!
P.

 

[KevinB]

Yes

 

[zerhash]

They will most likely wind up in Recce Platoon,or be held in the QM until they are required for a specific mission

i think you are right. C8 is an optimum weapon for the infantry, seeing as the majority of what is being done now is close quarter.

for recce i think a better weapon would be an SMG along the lines of a steyr TMP or FN P90. TMP is good for a mission that just requires a PDW and the P90 for missions that need high firepower and RPM for E & E. But then again when was the last time we ventured into a new weapon system

 

[1feral1]

The C7 family of weapons are M16's ( Licensed copy of M16A2s - however the C7A2s are in a class of their own so far). Your poll should say M16A1, you might get a better ballanced vote this way.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[M16]

Which would you rather use?  A C7/M16 or an AK47/AK74?

 

[McG]

You do know that while C7 and M16 are variations of the same, the AK74 and AK47 do not share the same caliber. 

 

[Quiet Riot]

If I had a choice on what weapon to use it would take years.... The one that really impresses me is the Steyr aug(i believe this is the correct name), that the australian army uses. It has some really cool features. Like the dual action trigger so there is no need to switch between semi auto and full auto(5lbs semi auto trigger pull, 9lbs full auto) , also i like the fact that it is a bull pup.  i am sure wes can expand on some of the feautres it has.  another weapon that catches my eye is the P90.  anyone have actual experience with this weapon I'd love to hear what you think about it.

 

[1feral1]

The AUG is way over rated (and over engineered), having carried it for 10 yrs ( and repairing them too) , I would rather have an M4 anyday. The only advantage to the AUG is its overall length. SMG length with assault rilfe calibre and range.

Too much plastic, including the hammer and complete trigger mech shy of springs and pins. Lots goes wrong with it believe me,and you can do water ops with it either!

Stick with the C7 FOW.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Pugnacious]

I'm not sure what I'd pick on the poll, as I have not fired any of them yet.
But just from what I have read, and seen on Documentaries methinks it would depend on the enviroment..ie the AK47 has proven itself in a jungle setting, and I'm kind'a partial to a weapon that is so durable, and one that you could belt someone with without it breaking.

Mind you It would be nice to hit something when you aimed at it, so the C7 would prob' be my overall pick.

When I finally get to try it I'll let you know what I think.  ;D

After the reading I have done I have to say I'm glad that we don't use SA 80's.  Uhg!

Cheers!
P.

 

[Quiet Riot]

well that's a shame to hear because the aug does look pretty bitchin.....
From what i have heard and read the AK is over hyped but is a great alternative for armies with cash problems and undertrained troops, they require almost no maintence and have a very simple design.   They really showed thier strenghts in vietnam, when most of the troops using them weren't professinal soldiers.    With that being said we should remeber it's not so much the rifle as the shooter behind it that really determines it's effectivness.
What are the issues with the SA80 I've heard some much about them mostly good, although I've never talked to anyone who actually used it for a prolonged period of time.

 

[1feral1]

The old L85 had some issues,and these have been addressed, with everything from new steel mags (the best ever M16 FOW mags I have ever seen), the gas system, to the cocking handle, and even the firing pin spring, etc, getting a make over by HK. Last year, I spoke to some UK soldiers who were in Basra, and the rifle worked well.

The modified rifle is now known as the L85A2 or A2's for short.


Cheers,

Wes

 

[M16]

Which rifle would you prefer to use in combat?  An Ak47 or a C7?

 

[McG]

M16,
You asked this question on the previous page:

Which would you rather use? A C7/M16 or an AK47/AK74?

Both times you posted this, your question was superfluous.   The topic of the thread is "AK47 vs. C7 or M16" so asking for a comparison of the weapons on pages 6 & 7 adds nothing.   Did you read the thread?

Stop wasting bandwidth.   Read this thread.   It is full of observations on the pros & cons of both weapons (observations that are much more insightfull that just stating a blanket preference for one weapon just because).

If, after having read the thread, you have a question on some piece of information then you may ask an intelligent & informed question.

 

[zerhash]

the C7 and AK are differ significantly.
C7s design is SEF trigger mech. AK is SFE. Basicly the AK was designed for machine gun use before rifle. The caliber is even more support for that. the heavier caliber being less accurate than the 556.

At section level the AK would be a beast in close quarter situations. the C7 is more of a prescission weapon that can handle greater range.

i have fired both the AK-74 and the C7 and AR-15. My preferance is the C7.

as for the P90 it carries a scaled down from 556, 5.7x28mm SS190 round. The SS190 has increased penetration on armor with its pointed steel core. Its effective range is 200m but penetrates low level armor at 50-100.
Its got a funky magazine that carries 50 rounds perpendicular to the barrel. the magazine rotates the bullet before entering the chamber. as for the ejection port. it is on the bottom of the weapon so the shells propel to the ground as opposed to your face.

http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/index.htm

that link should help you hutch!
First in Last Out!

 

[1feral1]

.
C7s design is SEF trigger mech. AK is SFE.   The caliber is even more support for that. the heavier caliber being less accurate than the 556.

At section level the AK would be a beast in close quarter situations. the C7 is more of a prescission weapon that can handle greater range.

What is SFE and SEF? I've been a qualified armourer since 1977, and and I never heard of that 'abbn' before?

True, the 5.56mm calibre has a straighter trajectory (flat and fast) than the traditional 7.62mm. However the 7.62 x 39mm bullet can still kill 'pack animals' at ranges to 1,500 metres (quoted from Russian technical manual, 1966), and one can get a good group (10cm) at 100 metres (at least I did anyways with a Russian 1977 vintage AKMS from the prone).

What do you mean by a 'more precision' weapon?  

I have a great deal of respect for both of these types of weapons, and both have their place.


Regards,

Wes

 

[KevinB]

Wes,

It HK lingo...

Safe E(semi - the german name) F (german for rock and roll baby  )

and the other way too...

The "heavy" round has nothing to do with accuracy - it is totally possible to make a tackdriving 7.62x39 (in a bolt gun handloading using brass cartidges but totally possible...)


AK - peasant/terrorist etc...  you can sub in target

C8/C7,M4/M16 - soldier 

    ;D



The SA80 even in the A2 is a POS this summer I shot with a few Brits albiet they were not "rifle" people they did nto think much of the A2 upgrades and had a list of bitches the 'rifle folk' had.

 

[1feral1]

Wes,

It HK lingo...

Safe E(semi - the german name) F (german for rock and roll baby   )

and the other way too...

The "heavy" round has nothing to do with accuracy - it is totally possible to make a tackdriving 7.62x39 (in a bolt gun handloading using brass cartidges but totally possible...)

Ya, I have seen the SEF on the older HK MP5's etc over the years, the ones we have are the 'bullets' for the designation on theh newer type plastic lowers. What threw me about the SEF thing was the words 'trigger mech'. Too much sun for me I guess.

Being out of the loop of North American gun 'lingo' for 10 yrs now, and I rely on SGN and SAT for my 'int updates' on the stuff we don't use.


Beers,

Wes

 

[KevinB]

Wes,

We dont use it here - the "Navy" trigger groups are in the CF HK's.
I simply gathered that is what he meant - as an aside the US SCAR-L required Safe/Auto/Semi for its fire selector.

Cheers

 

[canuck#1]

I saw that people wanted 2 know when the show that puts M16 up against AK47 it    is on, just wanted 2 tell u guys when its on. At 8 Greatest Military Clashs with the British sopwith camel vs the German triplane the 2nd is at 9   between the US sherman tank and the German tiger tank and finally at 10 M16 VS AK47 it is all on discovery channel on thurs dec 23 and by the way i live i Toronto so time zone may differ

Adam

 

[Pugnacious]

Yup that's the show I was talking about, pretty impressive.

esp' the part with the pine 4by4rs stopping the M16 round, while the AK47 round blasted right through.

Neat slow motion vid also, the AK just jumps all over the place, but notice the guy fireing it never looses that smirk.  ;D
LOL!

Over all I think it is a well put together show, abit short on topic coverage IMHO, but overall a good one to watch.
Besdies which the general public prob' wouldn't want to see everything field stripped etc, and prob' loose interest.

Cheers!
P.