AK47 vs. C7 or M16

[onecat]

The C7 is a good weapon, designed in the 50's but still a great weapon.  And with the American firearms industry creating more and more products for it, it'll be around for years to come.  Are there better weapons out there, sure.  I'm not an expert on the subject, but I think the G-36 is equal to the C7, and FN FAl is by far a better weapon.  But then that's my choice, one in 5.56 designed for the smaller round would be just as light and just as useful.  Is the AK-74 better, no.  Does it get the job done, yes.  Should Canada switch, no.  It doesn't make teh AK a crappy weapon ( as in the words of MG34) its just not designed for the same type of combat style.  Personally I think there too many people that just won;t give soviet style weapons a chance.. and prefer western designs. 

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I think from your post you doubt the experience of the previous posters when it comes to their experience and opinions on various weapons. Personally I think you are entitled to your opinion but I think you are wrong to dismiss their observations so candidly. I thought I knew quite a bit about firearms, these gentlemen proved me wrong.

 

[onecat]

No not at all.  I think there are many people on this site who have a great deal of experience and way more than I'll ever get as an FSC tech.  But I'm just stating my opinion on the C-7 and the AK series of weapons.  Because this an Canadian army forum most of the people here will only hve expereince with the C7 and to a limited degree other weapons, and by nature people like what they use most.  And that's the C7.  For me the main reason why I don't like as much as the FAL is that its a dirty weapon.  And yes I know you can clean it, but its still a dirty system.  I've fired the the old C1 it was never as dirty as a C7. 

 

[Gunnerlove]

Ex-Dragoon, I find that the C-7 is always in my way. It is just to damn long to sling out of the way. It is always digging into the ground or catching on a cam net. I find it awkward in trucks and vehicles like the M109 and under gun nets. I find it to be anything but handy, but that is just my opinion.
If I was going to buy a weapon for myself to to carry in the field while crewing a C3 howitzer the C-7 would not be it. I would want a shorter barrel with a folding stock and the sling swivels mounted on top of the weapon so the weapon could be slung out of the way without snagging or bashing into everything and everybody.

I have a ton of tools in my toolbox because each one is better at something than the others. Kind of like how the C-9 is a better at being a light machine gun than the C-7 . I just don't think the C-7 is the best weapon for "myself" to carry in the field.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Sorry radiohead I misread your meaning. The C1 is one weapon I was not sad to see go but thats my opinion.

Gunner maybe you guys would be better off with a C8 or even an MP5.

 

[Pugnacious]

Right now I have not fired any military rifle...be it AK, C7 or what ever, but I have to say while I sat in the recruters office in Victoria my eye kept going back and studying the old FN C1A1mounted on the wall.  That must have been a real beast to lug around, but Kind'a purdy. ;D

Cheers!
P.

 

[Gunnerlove]

I think the C8 would be a step in the right direction but only a step and the MP5 would result in a drastic reduction in fire power. I would like to see something like the carbine version of the G36 or the G36K as it still fires the full power rifle cartridge. I know, another weapon system to train on but I already train on a half dozen as it is.

I have heard of reliability issues with the G36 but nothing specific. Does anyone have any real info?

 

[Roger]

The biggest difference I found between the C7 and the FNC1 was the weight of the ammo, you could carry twice as much. The C1 with 100 rounds weighed the same as the C7 with 200 rounds.

The new Heckler & Koch G11 with caseless ammunition weighs the same with 400 rounds. And it can hold 3, 45 round mags, the two outer ones feed the center. I am impressed.

 

[KevinB]

G36 Issues: In talking to some of the German SF (KSK types) around here - two stated they were having a lot of troubles with the frame/body fracturing.

Top mounted sling swivels would likely put your sling up into the LOS of your sights...


HK's G11K2 was scrapped = the Germans could not afford it with unification (hence the el cheapo G36)
Until someone (like the US) steps up to the plate, the caseless ammo system is dead in the water

 

[MG34]

Unreal the whole thread has taken a huge step backwards,do you guys even think before you post this nonsense??

 

[Gunnerlove]

Yeah I would consider frame cracking to be a problem resulting in reliability issues. Thanks for the info Kevin. 
I do think that top mounted sling swivels could be made to work as they seem to work on the C9. I pulled out my telescopic butt last night and it has a slot for a sling on the top , to bad I can't get away with wrenching on my issue rifle.

 

[greentips]

;D ;D ;D

G36 Issues: In talking to some of the German SF (KSK types) around here - two stated they were having a lot of troubles with the frame/body fracturing.

Top mounted sling swivels would likely put your sling up into the LOS of your sights...


HK's G11K2 was scrapped = the Germans could not afford it with unification (hence the el cheapo G36)
Until someone (like the US) steps up to the plate, the caseless ammo system is dead in the water

 

[KevinB]

GT, thanks for the pics.  The dual optic on the G36 is an autrocious system as well.

We have seen French REP folk with Sig551, G36K, FAMAS, and C8SFW's  -- two (that spoke English) said they liked the C8 system best. 

Gunnerlove - the A2 variants all have telestocks -- I was adding telestocks to A1's for the last few years (only way to shoot in armour).  However I think you will find the sling plate design of the A2 superior to top mounting.

 

[zak]

Kevin B  - is that a c8 or a c8SFW?? 

 

[KevinB]

It is the C8SFW w/o KAC RAS - the CF bought just the uppers.  We got them as replacements to the C7A2 uppers (the Infantry needs and wants the carbine)  The CF is calling it the C8A2 upper.  (which gets confusing as the Dutch have a C8A2 which does not have the SFW barrel)...

 

[Pugnacious]

Silly question...what makes a rifle a Carbine?

Cheers!
P.

 

[48Highlander]

length.  a carbine's a short rifle.

 

[zak]

KevinB- are you saying that the c8 in your picture is a c7a3 lower reciever with a c8 upper reciever w heavy barrel???  If thats the case, is the rest of the combat arms gonna see those or is a piece of kit like that reserved just for operational deployments?

 

[MG34]

C7A2 lower receiver with a C8SFW upper.The grand plan is for the units to receive X amount of SFW uppers to issue out to those who require them.They will most likely wind up in Recce Platoon,or be held in the QM until they are required for a specific mission.Frankly I feel this is  a pretty bad idea,the C8SFW should become the new Infantry weapon,not handed out piecemeal. The days of banging it out at long range on the plains of Europe are long gone,as has been said time and time again here most combat engagements take place within 300m.

 

[KevinB]

the C8SFW should become the new Infantry weapon,not handed out piecemeal. The days of banging it out at long range on the plains of Europe are long gone,as has been said time and time again here most combat engagements take place within 300m.

EXACTLY.

The decrease in effectiveness for terminal ballistically and external balliticwise are miniscule (from 20" to 16" bbl).  Compared to the ease of usage in tight confines the C8SFW is a handsdown winner.