Strike

[MJP]

But we also gave up ever becoming wealthy for it. Nothing comes for free. I know a lot of families who have one person in private and the other in a Public Service, the private person can make more, but with more volatility in their life, the PS job makes sure the bills get paid and food on the table.

I think that is a bit of as tired trope from the 70s to 90s. Many of the PS nowadays are IMHO well compensated for their level of effort compared to their private sector compatriots. There will always be outliers of course

 

[brihard]

Indeed, generally those "civilian" world folks don't have a pension plan, benefits and iron clad job security. The federal public service like most public services are much better off than most Canadians.

Her LinkedIn has her as an associate registrar at RMC. If they use the terminology the same way as civilian universities, according to the Ontario sunshine list that’s a job averaging $115-125k, with some spread to either side.

No idea what RMC gets paid, and I can’t figure out what job classification this is. But if they’re represented by PSAC in the PA group, I doubt they’re close to that.

 

[MJP]

Her LinkedIn has her as an associate registrar at RMC. If they use the terminology the same way as civilian universities, according to the Ontario sunshine list that’s a job averaging $115-125k, with some spread to either side.

No idea what RMC gets paid, and I can’t figure out what job classification this is. But if they’re represented by PSAC in the PA group, I doubt they’re close to that.

Without knowing classification and job description it is is hard to make a one to one comparison.

In general though the bulk of PSAC folks I know are better off then their direct non public servant counterparts all things being equal.

That doesn't mean that their wages are right either on the private or the public side. I've always thought that on the low to middle side for both private and public employees their wages lag behind their duties and responsibilities.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Manitoba Soviet Socialist Republic

It’s a joke

I know what you mean; I lived there for three years.

 

[Remius]

Indeed, generally those "civilian" world folks don't have a pension plan, benefits and iron clad job security. The federal public service like most public services are much better off than most Canadians.

I wouldn’t say iron clad. Insulated from issues that plague the private sector for sure. But not iron clad.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I wouldn’t say iron clad. Insulated from issues that plague the private sector for sure. But not iron clad.

Especially given the time honoured 'last hired, first fired' policy in staunch Union shops...


Whether the union representing more than 150,000 striking federal workers gets everything it wants or has to make concessions, the cumulative wage increases will add billions to government spending at a time when public appetite for large deficits is waning.

Faced with diminishing political capital, the federal Liberal minority government will be under immense pressure to control spending, observers say — including by cutting the public service.

And if layoff decisions are made based on seniority — a topic that's come up during current negotiations — those hired during the COVID-19 pandemic could be the first to go.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/psac-strike-canada-government-pay-cost-cuts-layoffs-1.6822801

 

[MJP]

I wouldn’t say iron clad. Insulated from issues that plague the private sector for sure. But not iron clad.

It is easier to fire ppl from the CAF than the PS. Have done both and would rather deal with removing a CAF mbr from service any day over firing a PS

If you are talking about downsizing/sunsetting etc then yes it isn't iron clad, but they also have significantly more benefits/supports when that happens compared to most in the private sector

 

[Halifax Tar]

It is easier to fire ppl from the CAF than the PS. Have done both and would rather deal with removing a CAF mbr from service any day over firing a PS

If you are talking about downsizing/sunsetting etc then yes it isn't iron clad, but they also have significantly more benefits/supports when that happens compared to most in the private sector

Agreed.

I've seen it take years to get rid of a bad PS employee, and this had Civ HR assistance and miles of paperwork done right. But the union fought to the end to protect this guy's job.

I've seen CAF members kicked out in a couple weeks.

 

[Soldieratheart]

Agreed.

I've seen it take years to get rid of a bad PS employee, and this had Civ HR assistance and miles of paperwork done right. But the union fought to the end to protect this guy's job.

I've seen CAF members kicked out in a couple weeks.

You are not kicking a CAF member out in weeks unless they are a training failure or murdered someone.

It takes almost 2 years with all kinds of warnings, displinary paperwork and chances given in my experience.

Where have you seen it take weeks?

 

[dapaterson]

Weeks with a well documented history.

The PS, unlike the CAF, will suspend someone without pay pending resolution of serious allegations.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You are not kicking a CAF member out in weeks unless they are a training failure or murdered someone.

It takes almost 2 years with all kinds of warnings, displinary paperwork and chances given in my experience.

Where have you seen it take weeks?

Maybe for reservists on NES, but we have mechanisms to release people fast. Sometimes to their benefit sometime to the institutions.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Maybe for reservists on NES, but we have mechanisms to release people fast. Sometimes to their benefit sometime to the institutions.

I tell people this all the bloody time.

"Oh it's impossible to get folks kicked out!"

Really? Show me your documentation. Does the member have a conduct sheet? Let's see the Administrative Actions you've taken for poor performance...there aren't any? What 5019 series DAOD applies to their conduct? You don't know what that stands for? Ok...well what have you done to provide meat to the argument that this member needs to be kicked out? You wrote a 5B? Well then....

 

[Remius]

Maybe for reservists on NES, but we have mechanisms to release people fast. Sometimes to their benefit sometime to the institutions.

So does the PS. Everything is situational.

 

[Halifax Tar]

So does the PS. Everything is situational.

Mmm I dunno. I've seen the CAF shed dead weight many times in my career. And I've seen exactly 1 civi get the boot. And that took years.

And I know lots of civis who should get the boot.

 

[Quirky]

"Oh it's impossible to get folks kicked out!"

Really? Show me your documentation. Does the member have a conduct sheet? Let's see the Administrative Actions you've taken for poor performance...there aren't any? What 5019 series DAOD applies to their conduct? You don't know what that stands for? Ok...well what have you done to provide meat to the argument that this member needs to be kicked out? You wrote a 5B? Well then....

This is why there are so many malingerers and just plain unemployable people in their trades still left in the CAF. We may be 80% strength in our trade, but it's probably 65% employable. The amount of administrative actions needed to fire someone is not worth all the bureaucracy, never mind supervisors having the time anymore. The system was designed to keep people in CAF welfare as a form of equality. I can easily count on one hand the people who couldn't hold down the same job with any airline, yet the CAF keeps this incompetence employed. They may be "good people", but the skills will never be there and all they do is drag down the good performers. More work for the all stars, same pay as the bottom dwellers.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This is why there are so many malingerers and just plain unemployable people in their trades still left in the CAF. We may be 80% strength in our trade, but it's probably 65% employable. The amount of administrative actions needed to fire someone is not worth all the bureaucracy, never mind supervisors having the time anymore. The system was designed to keep people in CAF welfare as a form of equality. I can easily count on one hand the people who couldn't hold down the same job with any airline, yet the CAF keeps this incompetence employed. They may be "good people", but the skills will never be there and all they do is drag down the good performers. More work for the all stars, same pay as the bottom dwellers.

It's actually not hard. Document (feedback notes) the transgression a couple times with low level intervention attempts.

Then start the admin process. And nothing says you have to start the admin process at the beginning, you can jump right to C&P; and thats the last chance for them to correct themselves.

 

[dapaterson]

On the strike: Tomorrow is May Day - International Workers Day. Watch for PSAC leadership to declare victory and back to work he following day.

 

[Halifax Tar]

On te strike: Tomorrow is May Day - International Workers Day. Watch for PSAC leadership to declare victory and back to work he following day.

Let's hope so!

 

[dimsum]

This is why there are so many malingerers and just plain unemployable people in their trades still left in the CAF. We may be 80% strength in our trade, but it's probably 65% employable. The amount of administrative actions needed to fire someone is not worth all the bureaucracy, never mind supervisors having the time anymore. The system was designed to keep people in CAF welfare as a form of equality. I can easily count on one hand the people who couldn't hold down the same job with any airline, yet the CAF keeps this incompetence employed. They may be "good people", but the skills will never be there and all they do is drag down the good performers. More work for the all stars, same pay as the bottom dwellers.

How about a trade change instead? Maybe that person is not a great AVN Tech, but could be a good clerk?

I would suggest that before punting them from the CAF.

 

[brihard]

How about a trade change instead? Maybe that person is not a great AVN Tech, but could be a good clerk?

I would suggest that before punting them from the CAF.

I betcha the paperwork to document their performance deficiencies is lacking. I betcha the documented remedial development to correct it is lacking too.