US VS G7

[Good2Golf]

Very interesting, W601. So Canada and China are almost identical total trade, at 1/5 Trillion US dollars each, yet while Canada’s trade surplus with the US is only 4.7% compared to China’s 281.3% surplus, Canada gets the higher tariffs.  It must be that China doesn’t pose a National Security threat to the US. ???

Regards
G2G

 

[tomahawk6]

Canada is at 270% on dairy so I am sure this is a ploy by Trump to see that reversed.

 

[Good2Golf]

Canada is at 270% on dairy so I am sure this is a ploy by Trump to see that reversed.

'Lies, damned lies, and statistics' they say...

So what is the issue, really...let's take a different look at things from the Trump Administration's focus on tariff percentages... 

FACT*: The U.S. dairy industry exports 134% more, or 2.43 times the dairy products physically into Canada, than Canada exports to the U.S.  Woah!    That's what some would call a physical trade surplus....for the U.S.!  I thought Trump wanted to level all the surpluses/deficits? ???  Apparently only by the figures he chooses.  Trump and the farmers of the U.S. dairy industry are probably quite happy more than doubling the amount of Dairy exports they send North of the border, than Canada sends down. 

Interesting that few to none really question the huge subsidies that the US Government provides American dairy farmers to allow them to charge such low prices pre-tariff.  In many parts of the world, heavily-subsidized trade like that is called "dumping"...you know, like the U.S. forestry industry accuses the Canadian forestry industry of doing (yet the WTO says no)...but its okay to dump when it's America apparently.

All to say, that the issue is not quite the facile "remove the 'unfair' 270% tariff on our [heavily subsidized, but we'll never admit it] American dairy products" argument.

:2c:

Regards,
G2G


Fact refs: * - see "2017 - Dairy - US to Canada.pdf below, column "KG, 2017", bottom row "TOTAL DAIRY PRODUCTS", amount: 145,329,818kg; an amount 2.34 times greater than the 62,196,598kg that Canada exports to the U.S. (see "2017 - Dairy - Canada to US.pdf, same bottom KG-2017 cell)

 

[RocketRichard]

Now both sides are coming out, and if believed, Trudeau is THE bad guy here. Trump gave up the sunset clause and Trudeau DID stab him in the back. The clause appeared to be one of the very few sticking points left and Trump gave it up. I wonder if Trudeau is trying to draw heat from the dairy marketing board?

http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/kevin-libin-trudeau-stumbled-into-a-trade-war-that-isnt-all-trumps-fault?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1528971836

No words...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Altair]

Very interesting, W601. So Canada and China are almost identical total trade, at 1/5 Trillion US dollars each, yet while Canada’s trade surplus with the US is only 4.7% compared to China’s 281.3% surplus, Canada gets the higher tariffs.  It must be that China doesn’t pose a National Security threat to the US. ???

Regards
G2G

That didn't last long

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/united-states-china-tariffs-1.4707336

The Trump administration is announcing a 25 per cent tariff on $50 billion US worth of Chinese imports, escalating a trade dispute between the world's two largest economies.

President Donald Trump has vowed to clamp down on what he calls China's unfair trade practices.

It comes in the aftermath of Trump's nuclear summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un and his push for China to maintain economic pressure on the North.

Trump has already slapped tariffs on steel and aluminum imports from Canada, Mexico, Europe and Japan, drawing a rebuke from U.S. allies.

China has said it will retaliate against any move by the U.S. to impose punishing tariffs on tens of billions of dollars of Chinese goods.

Foreign Ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang said Friday that China's response would be immediate and Beijing would "take necessary measures to defend our legitimate rights and interests."

 

[Journeyman]

FACT*

Ah, but with the global growth in 'populist' political leadership, facts are increasingly dispensable -- from Putin denying any knowledge of either 'green men' in Crimea or the SA-11 missing one SAM missile returning to Russia following the Malaysian airliner downing over the Donbass... to Dutarte disavowing responsibility for the Philippines' 12,000+ drug-related murders.... to a growing list of political lies in between.

Godwin warning:  it was codified in Hitler's Mein Kampf  (1925) as "große Lüge" or the "big lie" -- the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."  It's obviously making a comeback, and is so increasingly common that perpetrators are given a free pass -- "oh sure he lies all the time, but.... [insert current hobbyhorse] -- even by people who would previously deny there being any lies,  routinely falling back on the default lie to cover the current lie, it's "fake news."  But now politicians' lies are so constant, that peoples' senses become dulled to even noticing the bigger ones.

In the case of the US in particular, I see a problem in repetitive claims that the media is lying and the judiciary crooked and conspiratorial having a global knock-on effect;  any corrupt leader can now simply say, "if the world's 'greatest and most liberal country' cannot trust its media, police, or courts, then we cannot either," in dismissing the efforts of these people.  In effect, legitimate pillars of fair governance are being hamstrung. 



I'd recommend Emily Dreyfuss, "Want to Make a Lie Seem True? Say It Again. And Again. And Again," Wired, 11 Feb 2017  LINK

You only use 10 percent of your brain. Eating carrots improves your eyesight. Vitamin C cures the common cold. Crime in the United States is at an all-time high.

None of those things are true.

But the facts don't actually matter: People repeat them so often that you believe them. Welcome to the “illusory truth effect,” a glitch in the human psyche that equates repetition with truth. Marketers and politicians are masters of manipulating this particular cognitive bias—which perhaps you have become more familiar with lately.

But be warned, she uses US political examples that some people may find hurtful. 

 

[CBH99]

"Mr. President, I have an idea.  I think we should alienate our closest NATO allies, and unilaterally start a trade war with them."

"Who do you mean?"

"Who you ask?  Well, Mr. President...everybody who matters.  Canada.  Europe.  Japan.  Probably South Korea soon too, just so they don't feel left out.  We want everybody to know we're willing to cripple relations very quickly, based on assumptions & wrong facts!  And we are going to tell the countries that buy our military equipment, allow our military to have bases on their soil, and constantly support our military-driven foreign policy that the reason for this is that THEY pose a threat to our national security!"

"Okay, and then what?  This sounds like an awful idea.  Are you serious?  Is it April fool's today?"

"No sir, I'm totally serious.  And then once we piss everybody off, and even threaten to make their people suffer as a result of their governments trying to negotiate in their own interest, we need to re-ignite a trade war with China.  Remember the concessions we made a few months ago, against the recommendations of the FBI?  Well, we're going to tear those up and start a trade war with China too."

"Ummmmmmm...well...sure.  Why not.  This administration has been absolutely killing it since we got here, I've obviously got amazing advisors.  Good job guys, make it happen!"


^^  :trainwreck:

 

[Altair]

"Mr. President, I have an idea.  I think we should alienate our closest NATO allies, and unilaterally start a trade war with them."

"Who do you mean?"

"Who you ask?  Well, Mr. President...everybody who matters.  Canada.  Europe.  Japan.  Probably South Korea soon too, just so they don't feel left out.  We want everybody to know we're willing to cripple relations very quickly, based on assumptions & wrong facts!  And we are going to tell the countries that buy our military equipment, allow our military to have bases on their soil, and constantly support our military-driven foreign policy that the reason for this is that THEY pose a threat to our national security!"

"Okay, and then what?  This sounds like an awful idea.  Are you serious?  Is it April fool's today?"

"No sir, I'm totally serious.  And then once we piss everybody off, and even threaten to make their people suffer as a result of their governments trying to negotiate in their own interest, we need to re-ignite a trade war with China.  Remember the concessions we made a few months ago, against the recommendations of the FBI?  Well, we're going to tear those up and start a trade war with China too."

"Ummmmmmm...well...sure.  Why not.  This administration has been absolutely killing it since we got here, I've obviously got amazing advisors.  Good job guys, make it happen!"


^^  :trainwreck:

It's amazing watching a Empire fall.

 

[Good2Golf]

It's amazing watching a Empire fall.

Some say Trump is America's Neville Chamberlain.

Hopefully not...but usually "Hope is not a method."

Regards
G2G

 

[tomahawk6]

We had hope for 8 years but change has spurred our economy.How's yours ?

 

[Good2Golf]

We had hope for 8 years but change has spurred our economy.How's yours ?

Pretty good.  Lowest unemployment in 42 years.  You guys are only hitting an 18 year record.  :dunno:

Cheers
G2G

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Altair]
It's amazing watching a Empire fall.
[/quote]

Did Rome's trade partners and allies prosper when that nation fell? Honest question.

 

[Infanteer]

Did Rome's trade partners and allies prosper when that nation fell? Honest question.

Well, Rome didn't really have allies.  Other societies around it prospered because they feasted on the carcass of the empire.

 

[Remius]

Well, Rome didn't really have allies.  Other societies around it prospered because they feasted on the carcass of the empire.

It had client states.

 

[Edward Campbell]

It had client states.

Which, some might suggest, is the model that President Trump understands and wants to emulate.

 

[Altair]

Which, some might suggest, is the model that President Trump understands and wants to emulate.

What could go wrong?

 

[tomahawk6]

Trump ran on Making  America Great Again and promised that the US would not be taken advantage any more that's what he's doing.He is talking to his base.

 

[mariomike]

rump ran on Makin on the trade g America Great Again and promised that the US would not be taken advantage any more that's what he's doing.He is talking to his base.

Never heard him called that before.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Never heard him called that before.

You haven't been paying attention ... almost everyone calls him an ass.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Did Rome's trade partners and allies prosper when that nation fell? Honest question.

Rome fell after it stopped being able to keep the barbarians out due to the decline of internal management mechanisms etc. Basically: They got soft, the others didn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_the_Western_Roman_Empire

Comparing the US with Ancient Rome is, while fun, also probably a pretty solid venture into false analogy land