Transition to Municipal Police Force

[dapaterson]

Unfortunately I believe this got shitcanned. @dapaterson I think you were talking about this previously?

Is Latvia tax free?

Not shitcanned, delayed due to archaic payroll software needing lots of TLC, and implementation of those rules falls below the support level of "don't let the CAF payroll systems crash".

 

[daftandbarmy]

I've seen enough to know I want nothing to do with this mess full time. Don't get me wrong I enjoy my time in the PRes but even that is nearing its close.

As above.

I may LWOP and take a tour though, I've always wanted one of those before I leave the PRes.

I'm looking at a Pilot's license, or perhaps I'll follow the family business into the Railroad industry. My grandfather worked for CN for 40 years, had nothing but good things to say about it. The pilot's license would be obscenly expensive and would require me to stick around as an LEO to pay for it longer than I think I have the patience for. I'm not sold on leaving yet, but if I don't start seeing people with a decade's more service than me being released in the near future, I'll know for certain I have no hope and it's time to go.

The railways have police...

Railway Police

The Canadian National Railway and the Canadian Pacific Railway have their own police forces in British Columbia. They protect the property and personnel of the railways, and increase public safety and border security

www2.gov.bc.ca

 

[RedFive]

Not shitcanned, delayed due to archaic payroll software needing lots of TLC, and implementation of those rules falls below the support level of "don't let the CAF payroll systems crash".

Bringing me back to not wanting to sign on full time with the CAF...

Good to know.

 

[RedFive]

The railways have police...

Railway Police

The Canadian National Railway and the Canadian Pacific Railway have their own police forces in British Columbia. They protect the property and personnel of the railways, and increase public safety and border security

www2.gov.bc.ca

Ha. My interactions with their membership has not been positive or bringing credibility to their organizations.

 

[dapaterson]

Bringing me back to not wanting to sign on full time with the CAF...

Good to know.

The other piece to remember is that even once implemented, the CAF policy will pay you your salary amount - not your pay plus regular overtime.

 

[RedFive]

The other piece to remember is that even once implemented, the CAF policy will pay you your salary amount - not your pay plus regular overtime.

That's perfectly fine by me, I give so much back in tax just skipping that will exceed my take home OT, shift differential, designated paid holidays... all of it.

 

[MJP]

Is Latvia tax free?

Latvia is tax free

 

[Zoomie]

Latvia is tax free

As is Scotland….

 

[Booter]

Did something change recently with LWOP? I only ask because it must be currently being interpreted wrong in some places- it wouldn’t be granted in exceptional circumstances like this transition and its current woes based off the last conversation I saw on this exact topic elsewhere.

On top of that- coming back you would be at the end of priority for staffing continuity- might be the last guy turning out the lights.

I don’t say this lightly but it may be time for you to go to a different force in a place you want to live if the Surrey lift is too big- it seems unhealthy for you presently (I think it is for all the members SPS and RCMP there). You can rejoin later if you want to be in the RCMP.

 

[mariomike]

I don’t say this lightly but it may be time for you to go to a different force in a place you want to live if the Surrey lift is too big- it seems unhealthy for you presently (I think it is for all the members SPS and RCMP there). You can rejoin later if you want to be in the RCMP.

An interesting and informative 19 pages, as our town never contracted out emergency services.

Applicants have always applied directly to the city.

 

[daftandbarmy]

As is Scotland….

Scotland's main source of revenue is from various taxes...

Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland 2022-23

Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS) is a National Statistics publication. It estimates the revenue raised in Scotland and the cost of public services provided for the benefit of Scotland.

www.gov.scot

 

[markppcli]

Unfortunately I believe this got shitcanned. @dapaterson I think you were talking about this previously?

Is Latvia tax free?

It’s, but only Risk / Hardship 1. although they’ve started letting people spend the night in Riga, which brings us back to municipal police !

 

[RedFive]

I don’t say this lightly but it may be time for you to go to a different force in a place you want to live if the Surrey lift is too big- it seems unhealthy for you presently (I think it is for all the members SPS and RCMP there). You can rejoin later if you want to be in the RCMP.

I appreciate what you're saying here, but my primary reason for joining the RCMP was all of the stuff we do that isn't city policing, specifically Federal and Specialized Policing. The whole 158 career specializations pitch. I'm not going to get a shot at that somewhere else, at least not the Federal side or the support services I'm actually interested it. And I would be starting over again basically from scratch anywhere else.

I have absolutely no desire to spend the rest of my life doing social work at 5am for an ungrateful populace that hates me despite the fact they're the ones that called me.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Speaking of which, my buddy just attended a domestic in Surrey, where everyone was yelling at everyone and then the pet bird settled onto his shoulder and started snuggling him. At which point, everyone started laughing and that helped calm the situation. So based on that, we are going to issue everyone with a talking parrot for domestic calls.

 

[Booter]

These 19 pages have been interesting and informative.

Our town never contracted out their emergency services.

All members apply directly to the city they want to work for.

I think transitions like this were possible until sometime around the 90s. Now the police are used to fill so many cracks in so many practises that if you can’t field 400 officers and support immediately it doesn’t work. We re just learning this on the backs of Surrey.

I appreciate what you're saying here, but my primary reason for joining the RCMP was all of the stuff we do that isn't city policing, specifically Federal and Specialized Policing. The whole 158 career specializations pitch. I'm not going to get a shot at that somewhere else, at least not the Federal side or the support services I'm actually interested it. And I would be starting over again basically from scratch anywhere else.

I have absolutely no desire to spend the rest of my life doing social work at 5am for an ungrateful populace that hates me despite the fact they're the ones that called me.

i suspect soon it will be easier for lateral cops to get into fed policing than rcmp members in contract. But that’s just me reading the tea leaves.

I’m sorry the hundreds of you are going through what you’re going through.

 

[mariomike]

I think transitions like this were possible until sometime around the 90s. Now the police are used to fill so many cracks in so many practises that if you can’t field 400 officers and support immediately it doesn’t work. We re just learning this on the backs of Surrey.

Our town never contracted out emergency services.

The City has operated the three emergency services directly on an uninterrupted basis since 1834, 1874 and1883 respectively.

Members apply to work here because they want to work here.

Not just visiting, or passing through.

As far as the residents of Surrey, B.C. are concerned, what is in their best interest will be decided by their elected federal, provincial and municipal representatives.

 

[RangerRay]

As far as the residents of Surrey, B.C. are concerned, what is in their best interest will be decided by their elected federal, provincial and municipal representatives.

And that’s the problem. The last two municipal elections were inconclusive about whether that’s what the few voters who showed up were concerned about or other issues, and the city and the Province are at odds over how to move forward. The only thing everyone agrees on if that it’s been a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Is this check mate?

We shall see... as the world turns

As Brenda Locke's policing losses mount, mandate argument weakens​

A B.C. Supreme Court judge has upheld provincial legislation to force a police transition in Surrey, and while Mayor Brenda Locke continues to be combative, there are questions about the strength of her mandate to continue to try to keep the RCMP in her city.

This week presented the latest loss in Locke's desire to deliver on the single most important issue upon which she campaigned in 2022: stopping a transition from the RCMP to a municipal force.

The city initiated the judicial review to argue that the public safety minister was going against the will of voters who elected Locke on a promise to keep the RCMP.

Locke, who is still not admitting defeat, and hasn't yet decided on an appeal, continues to maintain she's in the fight to prevent the cost of policing from increasing in B.C.'s second largest and fastest-growing municipality.

As Brenda Locke's policing losses mount, mandate argument weakens

A B.C. Supreme Court judge has upheld provincial legislation to force a police transition in Surrey, and while Mayor Brenda Locke continues to be combative, there are questions about the strength of her mandate to continue to try to keep the RCMP in her city.This week presented the latest loss...

ca.news.yahoo.com

 

[lenaitch]

Not just visiting, or passing through.

Until they do. I know all sorts of Toronto police and fire who have patched over to other services. It is obviously easier for large municipalities to hire and retain 'hometown folk', if for no other reason than there are a lot of hometown folk. Also, larger departments have the ability to create a wider range of specialized services which help members find interesting career paths or alternatives when they, or their bodies, tire of working the road.

The 'not from town' or 'they're only here because they were transferred in' has been an argument used by smaller municipalities to fend off contracting out police services (interestingly, I'm not aware of the same dynamic in professional fire services - they tend to stay within their borders). Small police services have pretty much gone the way of the hula-hoop in Ontario, but I have known a couple where not a single member was from town. Once absorbed by the OPP or a larger neighbouring service under contract, within a couple of years, most members have moved on to a specialty that was unavailable to them in their former service.

What is going on in Surrey sounds like an absolute s**tshow and I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

 

[mariomike]

I know all sorts of Toronto police and fire who have patched over to other services.

It's back-breaking.

City of Toronto responds to 40% of the emergency ( paramedic ) call volume in Ontario.

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2019/ec/bgrd/backgroundfile-133549.pdf

Toronto Police and Fire also have high call volumes.

Also, larger departments have the ability to create a wider range of specialized services which help members find interesting career paths or alternatives when they, or their bodies, tire of working the road.

Cummulative Mental Stress has taken off like wildfire in recent years.

26%​

Increase in occupational stress injuries among Toronto paramedics over the past year

PTSD cases are placed into permanent "suitable" new job classifications in other departments.

"Suitable" as in unskilled, ( relatively ) little responsibility, physical or mental effort.
Clean, inside work with no heavy lifting and a thermostat on the wall.

Toronto has 40,000 employees, so there are many options.

That does not include employees working in the City’s Agencies, Boards or Commissions (TTC, Police, Library, Association of Community Centres, etc.), Accountability Offices, or elected officials.

So, there is no shortage of "suitable" job classifications to place PTSD cases. Parks Dept. is a popular choice.

The pre-injury pay rate is maintained, and is subject to all wage increases negotiated.

Seniority, OMERS, etc. all seamlessly continue ( ie: no Break in Service ).

Toronto Police and firefighters are likely under similar strain.