The Claymore is no more.

[Scoobie Newbie]

Be advised that the Claymore Mine has been renamed to the "Defensive Command Detonated Weapon (DCDW) C19" to fall in line with Canada's policy on Mines.  As such, all old stock of claymore mines which are labelled "Mine" are to be issued for trg purposes in an effort to eliminate stocks containing the label "Mine".

 

[Sapper41]

This information is at least four years old.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Dang,

I thought this was a thread about swords...

dileas

tess

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Sapper41 that maybe true but it seems it has just made its way to the unwashed masses.

 

[Gino]

Dang,

I thought this was a thread about swords...

dileas

tess

Me too.  I was all prepared to point out that what Scottish regiments carry are actually basket-hilted broadswords, not claymores.

 

[Gunnar]

In other news, we are eliminating food from the Army.  All items formerly referred to as food will now be called biological energy producing comestibles, or BEPC for short.  Further, the "rifle" and the "bayonet" will now be eliminated, to be replaced with interpersonal negotiation tools (hostile), or INT(H).  Lastly, we will be replacing the "artillery" with high-efficacity misguided opposition instructional tools, or HEMOITs.

There are no weapons any more.  Wow.  The most peaceful nation on earth.  Someone should tell the UN.

 

[medicineman]

I remember getting my buttocks reamed out by some student of mine at PSTC for calling a Claymore a mine back in 01 or 02 while teaching blast trauma.  Hmm - you can plant it, wire it,  command it or booby it - like a duck, it must be one.  :

MM

 

[couchcommander]

I wonder if we can then look foward to the development of pressure activated explosive devices?

 

[Chimo]

The claymore was renamed to meet the requirements of the Ottawa Accord. More then a name change, the mine can no longer be set up with a trip wire or other method other then command detonated.

"The Mine Ban Treaty permits Claymore-type mines (directional fragmentation) used in command-detonated mode. However, the treaty prohibits Claymore-type mines used in a victim-activated mode because the weapon meets the definition of an antipersonnel mine". More info available at :

http://www.icbl.org/content/download/20094/387686/file/art2_feb_2004.pdf

Like it or not that's the way it is. 

 

[NL_engineer]

I remember getting my buttocks reamed out by some student of mine at PSTC for calling a Claymore a mine back in 01 or 02 while teaching blast trauma.  Hmm - you can plant it, wire it,  command it or booby it - like a duck, it must be one.  :

The C19 CAN NOT I say again CAN NOT be used as a non-command detonated mine (ie. set to a trip wire)  :threat:.  It can only be comman detonated, which in turn makes it a weapon, not a mine.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Nl_Engineer in Canada yes, but anywhere else no you can set it for whatever you want.

 

[COBRA-6]

The C19 CAN NOT I say again CAN NOT be used as a non-command detonated mine (ie. set to a trip wire)  :threat:.  It can only be comman detonated, which in turn makes it a weapon, not a mine.

Are you talking physically or legally?? Has the C19 been modified in some way to prevent the use of a trip wire??

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Are you talking physically or legally?? Has the C19 been modified in some way to prevent the use of a trip wire??

I think he is talking legally only Mike.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Nl_Engineer in Canada yes, but anywhere else no you can set it for whatever you want.

No, you cant.  Saying that is the same as saying, "You cant murder someone in Canada, but you can outside the Canada."  Canadian soldiers cannot employ weapons banned by the Ottawa convention, especially overseas.  The fact you are physically able to do something does not give you permission to do something.

Give your head a shake.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Ok that didn't come out the way I was thinking. What I meant to say was that Canadian Doctrin is that we don't use the C-19 in no other way than Command Det. I meant anyone else will use the Claymore in other manners i.e trip wire, etc.

 

[COBRA-6]

roger that, thanks

 

[NL_engineer]

Are you talking physically or legally?? Has the C19 been modified in some way to prevent the use of a trip wire??

No, it is the same old weapon, but our doctern stats that it has to be command detonated, no exceptions.  If you want one set up for a trip wire, it is the same as getting an AP mine field set up; call the US Army Core of Engineers.

*edited to remove information*

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Read a few posts above NL_Engineer, I clarified my statement.

 

[medicineman]

No, it is the same old weapon, but our doctern stats that it has to be command detonated, no exceptions.  

So as I stated previously then...

Is it just me or does this sound like semantics?  If that is the case, perhaps they should in fact produce said weapon without the abillity to do other than command detonate then.  Or was it left like that so that our allies that aren't party to the Ottawa Accord can, shall we say, provide some extra measure of defence in our area without us actually doing the dirty work ourselves?  No sarcasm intended BTW (well, maybe a little), it's a serious question.

MM

 

[AmmoTech90]

Unless we deploy with the US to Korea they won't be setting up any non-command det Claymores for us either.  The only place they deploy persistent AP mines is Korea.  In fact they need Presidential authority to deploy persistent AT mines anywhere.

Dont count on help you wont get.

http://www.state.gov/t/pm/rls/fs/30044.htm

Medman,

CDS direction:

Canada may participate in combined operations with a state that is not Party to the Convention. Canadian contingents may not, however, use anti-personnel mines and the Canadian Forces may not request, even indirectly, the protection of anti-personnel mines or encourage the use of anti-personnel mines by others.

D

PS NL_engineer PM sent.