New Ontario Laws for Young Drivers

[chris_log]

I'm pretty sure I posted this in the right place.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081118/AUTOS_young_drivers_081118/20081118?hub=Canada

Essentially, under this law 'youth' 21 and under will have to have a zero BAC to drive (right now it depends on your class of license, not age), can only have one other 'youth' in the car with them and 'youth' will have an automatic 30 day license suspension for speeding (a 19, 20 and 21 year old isn't a youth, he/she is an adult).

WTF? Not only is this ANOTHER 'let's ban it' proposal from the Ontario government, but it's blatently unfair. Older people drink and drive, and speed. This is age discrimination, pure and simple. Quite frankly, it's bulls**t.

Thoughts?

 

[dapaterson]

Expand the program, removing the age restrictions.  All new drivers.  Anyone convicted of DUI.  Anyone getting 9+ demerits.

I'm all for cracking down on bad drivers, but not restricting it based on age.

 

[Strike]

I would seriously call that age discrimination.  This whole thing smacks of the other thread about society coddling kids in school by removing the "F" grade.  Way to show these young adults that you trust them.  And yes, that's what they are, young adults.  They may still be your little baby, but they have grown up and most are probably now living on their own, doing their own laundry, and paying their own bills.  If they are responsible enough to be expected to pay taxes, then they should have the same rights as everyone else.

 

[Snafu-Bar]

It's just another cash grab in the grand scheme of things. Although the intentions are good(stopping DUI) the results of this aren't going to "fix" the problem. Some people are going to do it anyways, the end results will end in tragedy sooner or later regardless of intervention. Since people have been driving they have been having accidents. It's never going to change no matter how many "idiot proof" laws they come up with.

The person behind the wheel is going to do as S/He wishes, even it means people get killed.

They put in a street racing law, has it prevented people from doing 140+ on the highways, absolutely not. Although it does provide the LEO's with a measure of control by allowing siezure of the vehicles and ban on driving for the person behind the wheel, it still does nothing to prevent it.

Untill the automobile is built with controls within to limit speeds automatically depending on the vehicles location will anything be "prevented" but this is generations away from being a reality yet. But drive by wire will make it's way to the market and people will simply be "limo'd" around by thier vehicles with only voice controlled access to the vehicles operation. IE "hello this is your car/truck where would you like to go?"

Cheers.

 

[kratz]

I read about this proposal last night at Canada.com. Their news  story on the proposal shows the zero tolerance BAC is for all age and classes of drivers. Even a new provision to punish those caught trying to circumvent their punishment by driving a court ordered Breathalyzer ignition vehicle.

Ont. to seize cars on spot when drivers found over alcohol limit
 
Jordana Huber
Canwest News Service

Monday, November 17, 2008


TORONTO - Drivers in Ontario who blow over the legal blood-alcohol limit or those caught behind the wheel with a suspended licence will have their cars impounded on the spot under new legislation to be introduced Tuesday.

The penalties are part of a package of road safety measures proposed by Transportation Minister Jim Bradley to toughen the regulations for novice drivers and for drivers of all ages who break the rules of the road.

Under the proposed legislation, drunk drivers or individuals with suspended licences caught driving, will have their cars impounded for seven days.

Government sources said motorists aged 21 and under also will be barred from consuming any alcohol before getting behind the wheel and will face a licence suspension if caught to have been drinking.

The legislation also will limit the number of passengers allowed in the car with teenage drivers and is to include penalties for speeding that will apply to any new driver with a G-1 licence, regardless of age.

A first-time offender will face a 30-day licence suspension and a repeat-offender will lose the privilege to drive for 90 days. A third-time offender will have to re-qualify for the right to drive in Ontario.

"It's a good package of measures and it extends well beyond new drivers," said Andrew Murie, CEO of Mothers Against Drunk Driving Canada. "It will save hundreds of lives."

MADD Canada has long lobbied for changes to toughen laws for novice drivers.

Manitoba and Nova Scotia impose zero-tolerance drinking policies for drivers of all ages for the first five years while New Brunswick laws include a zero-tolerance for new drivers 21 and under.

Following a drunk-driving accident last summer that killed three teens in the cottage country area of Muskoka, Ont., Premier Dalton McGuinty said he would take another look at the legislation.

Tyler Mulcahy, 20, was behind the wheel of a vehicle that went off the road and into a river on July 3. He, along with two friends were killed.

Mulcahy's father, Tim, started a petition and took out a full page newspaper ad to lobby the government implement a zero-tolerance drinking policy for young drivers.

"Dear Mr. McGuinty, my son is dead," the letter to the premier said. "It's not your fault but you can make a difference and reduce future suffering."

The proposed legislation also will allow police to impound a car if the driver has been required by the court to use a breathalyzer ignition lock but is caught driving another vehicle.

Drivers who have had their licences suspended for medical reasons or for outstanding traffic tickets will not have their car impounded because that could cause a lag in paperwork, a government source said.

© Canwest News Service 2008

 

[GAP]

We've had pretty restrive rules for some time here in Manitoba....it does not stop it, but there are a heck of a lot of Designated Drivers now when my sons are going out (all except for the 19 year old....his friends don't seem to have gotten the message....they will )

 

[Celticgirl]

I'm pretty sure I posted this in the right place.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081118/AUTOS_young_drivers_081118/20081118?hub=Canada

Essentially, under this law 'youth' 21 and under will have to have a zero BAC to drive (right now it depends on your class of license, not age), can only have one other 'youth' in the car with them and 'youth' will have an automatic 30 day license suspension for speeding (a 19, 20 and 21 year old isn't a youth, he/she is an adult).

WTF? Not only is this ANOTHER 'let's ban it' proposal from the Ontario government, but it's blatently unfair. Older people drink and drive, and speed. This is age discrimination, pure and simple. Quite frankly, it's bulls**t.

Thoughts?

We've had a Graduated Licensing System here in Nova Scotia for many years, and it sounds like the new Ontario law will be similar to this. I don't think it specifies a certain age, though. Rather, the rules are focused around new drivers (in the first two years of getting their license). I do think it was a great thing for the province to implement and has probably saved some lives over the years.

I think that the new legislation in NS banning cell phone use while driving is also a step in the right direction. I hope that this is amended to include (if it doesn't already) sending text messages while behind the wheel.

 

[Snafu-Bar]

Ontario's had graduated liscensing for a couple of years now as well. This is just adding pressure on the younger drivers to not drink if they intend to drive, thus they are reverting from the allowed .08 to a zero tolerance, zero alchohol approach. For those who are G1 or G2 it's already restrictive enough on the allowable conditions to be behind the wheel, but of those conditions THIS is the one that fits the criteria the best.

The prospects of being a 19 year old just getting my liscense i'd probably give up on it, too much of a headache.

Cheers.

 

[Thompson_JM]

I still see this as pure age discrimination. pure and simple...

Dalton Miguinty has always struck me as a flaming idiot with little to no concept of reality... (re: Gun Control) and this simply proves it once again...

these rules will not do anything to solve the problem in my opinion.... since the reality is there is little difference in a car full of 21 year olds, and a car full of 22 year olds....  

and for what its worth, ontario has had a graduated licensing system in place for years. with severe restrictions imposed on new drivers when it comes to where when and how they can drive.  

personally this sounds like a pretty weak attempt to make it look like he cares "please someone think of the children...."

I have nothing against the rules for alcohol... but the rule about the number of youth in the vehicle? give me a @#$ break!  when I was 20 i was driving 8pax vans all over this province for DND. granted I did have more thorough driver training, but even still... it just strikes me as flat out retarded.

As much as I hated Harris, Next election I'm voteing conservative just in the hopes that Dalton will be Done.

 

[Conquistador]

What bugs me is this:

Perhaps the most precious thing we have in society is our children, and that includes our older children

19-21 year olds are allowed to vote, drink, smoke and buy firearms,  but they're still seen as "older children"? Gimme a break!

 

[The Bread Guy]

Wonder how many complaints they'd get if they tried imposing zero tolerance and automatic suspensions for drivers older than 65 or 70?

 

[aesop081]

I'm confident that more legislation will make us safer..........

 

[Rocketryan]

This is just brilliant,
Lets screw over the kids going home from a party, say, 4 of them are drunk, and then you have the DD, so now the DD is breaking the law by not letting the drunks drive them selves home...Same with students that car pool or depend on friends for rides

I think the speeding one is a bit harsh but oh well, I agree with the new rules for drinking too

Is it possible they can cancel this law?

 

[CountDC]

Seems to be some misunderstanding here - I read that the restriction on number of passengers was for those 19 and under.

Think this would be better if it was changed from age to years as drivers same as NS. A new driver is a new driver regardless of age.  Also wonder where they came up with 19 - this is the legal drinking age in Ontario so it seems to me a prime time to encourage car pooling and designated drivers.  Can't do that if you are only allowed one passenger.

On the news they talked about this and presented the reason for the restrictions on teens was because studies supposedly showed that teens with passengers were more likey to have accidents and speed as they showed off for their friends. Obviously the people that did that study do not drive the same roads I do as everyone but me and the 90 year old sunday turtle speeds.  Most accidents I hear about are rush hour traffic to and from work - not the teens again.

I just think teen accidents that results in deaths get a lot more attention so give a false perception.

Those that think this law will not make a difference are wrong IMO - it is more a matter of what difference it will make.

 

[karl28]

Rocketryan 

                          Here is a thought the others can take a cab if they can afford to drink to the point where they cant drive than take a cab home .        That's what me and my friends did when we where that young .

 

[kratz]

It is not a law ...yet. At the moment it is a proposal on the table. Kind of like a trial balloon to gauge public reaction to the concept.

 

[Snafu-Bar]

This is just brilliant,
Lets screw over the kids going home from a party, say, 4 of them are drunk, and then you have the DD, so now the DD is breaking the law by not letting the drunks drive them selves home...Same with students that car pool or depend on friends for rides

I think the speeding one is a bit harsh but oh well, I agree with the new rules for drinking too

Is it possible they can cancel this law?

Depending on the MOOD of the LEO and the conditions for which he is dealing with, it's more than likely a ticket would be issued, but that would probably be it. If the LEO feels confident that the driver is not under the influence and is truly driving people home and not to another party/bar they could get the obligatory warning and be on thier way.

As for cancelling it,not likely... this is Canada we need more un-enforceable laws to control people who have the ability to control themeslves but choose not to.  :

Cheers.

 

[benny88]

Outrageous, especially the one passenger 19 and under rule.  Does that mean I can't take my little cousins to hockey practice? Does that mean a 21 year old mother couldn't drive her children to pre-school? The law seems like a GREAT  : idea until you realize that there ARE cars full of people under 21 who AREN'T on mail-box smashing, crack-smoking joyrides.

Also, Rocketryan's post about the DD has excellent merit. This now requires 1 out of every 2 young people to be a DD rather than 1 out of 5-7. This will lead to....ding ding you guessed it! more drunk driving.

Frankly, I predict this legislation will turn out to be an embarassment. It will not be followed (Guaranteed.), it will not be enforced (As Snafu-bar said, hopefully Police will use common sense), and the provincial government will look like a bunch of asses for wasting money even trying to keep this afloat.

 

[GAP]

The number of passengers generally applies to a time, something like 11pm, that indicates it is for partying purposes, rather the running the rug rats to hockey....

 

[benny88]

The number of passengers generally applies to a time, something like 11pm, that indicates it is for partying purposes, rather the running the rug rats to hockey....

That would be more reasonable, but nothing has been said about any sort of time restrictions. Regardless of the time frame there will still be events where this law will conflict with completely innocent things, like the examples I listed above.