MilCOTS GMC Silverado (Iltis replacement for the PRes)

[Thompson_JM]

well in order to get a "Fully" Authentic CF vehicle you will have to modify it to hoplessly break down for no reason every so many kilometers!  ;D

 

[Michael Dorosh]

well in order to get a "Fully" Authentic CF vehicle you will have to modify it to hoplessly break down for no reason every so many kilometers!  ;D

That's easy enough to do - just loan it out to 300 different users, half of whom drive that particular vehicle type only once every two months, and have them treat it as if it doesn't belong to them, or that whatever they break will be fixed by the taxpayers. 

 

[ackland]

Hey, let's not forget that some of the reserve recce units are testing the Bombardier 4-wheeler ATV.

Who knows, may be you'll be driving your OC around on that thing -- just think of all the fun you two can have. Meow!

I'm in the unit  testing those ATV's it is a total waste of time and is due to be over in may when we will be getting as far away from those peices of Shite as possible.

 

[childs56]

One thing with any vehicle like a jeep, you must loose the roof, strap your kit to the outside and keep your ammo and weapons on you. I have seen many times Officers and Snr Ncos driving around in an Iltis with the roof and doors on. needless to say they looked like idiots trying to get out. I was in the field no roof no doors just cam net and rucksacks, the officer looks over at me and says umm Its getting cold out I think we should put the roof on, I replied umm sir the roof is back at the Biv. No further comment from him. The Americans Artillery Observers that we drove past loved the size of the Iltis, it is small compact and low silhouette, as opposed to their Humvees in which they said were noisy, to tall for trying to hide in and their size made it hard to find holes to make them dissapear. Needless to say whenever I used the Iltis off road it was superb. I drove in mountainous terrain, in BC, good vehicle if you keep the maintenance up, and actually teach people how to drive the thing. It doesn't matter what you have to drive if you have an idiot behind the wheel it will get stuck, no matter if it has tracks or wheels. I drove an LSVW for the fires in BC and will say the truck actually impressed me as to how well it drove,(same thing put an idiot behind the wheel it will get stuck) Put the thing in 2nd gear and then drive it, engage the 4 wheel drive and dont be afraid to put it in 4 low and lock the rear diff. makes a world of difference. although it wasn't fast i will say it did go farther then my Chevy diesel rental truck could. I wont say much about the construction of the LSVW as it is to be desired, but has alot of good ideas on it such as the axles, and the 4 banger turbo diesel.the high vis you have in front of you while driving. We need good off road vehicles, but more importantly we need a central driving school to teach people how to drive off road. and we need the money to properly maintain these vehicles.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

And, CTD, one final point to your excellent post -  drivers need to keep in practice; schooling them once and then letting their skills slide doesn't help anyone.

I also enjoyed the cabover design of the LSVW and found it fun to drive.

The heaters in those things rocked, too.

 

[pbi]

Obviously some of you Reservists don't know the purpose of the Silverado. It is supposed to be an Adm veh for you to conduct your daily ADM tasks, not go to the field for use as an AFV. The Regt's that are currently using the Iltis for Armd Recce will be getting the LUVW recce version for it's intended purpose.

I laugh at this forum sometimes because of the uninformed B.S. that comes out of some people, if you don't know what you are talking about then don't B.S. the people who know. I spent 2 yrs in Armoured School Standards if you want to refute me, and I am currently in Training Sqn.

P.S. I have been at the school for 7 yrs and am fully versed on this subject.

Actually, I'd say you're not fully versed on it, at all. First of all, in our Res CBG, the purpose of the Silverado has been explained to us quite differently-it is most definitely a field vehicle, and NOT a vehicle for daily admin tasks. Res units are already issued COTS "green fleet" vehicles for this purpose, under a separate program. The "Milverado" is to be used in the field, but with off-road restrictions due to the warranty and service agreements with the manufacturer. If we violate the terms of the warranty, we negate the supposed cost-saving value of being able to get   dealer service.

Second, Res units are not necessarily receiving sufficient LUVWs to replace the Iltis on a one for one basis. In our case, our two Bde Cavalry units, the FGH and the SaskD will both be short LUVWs, in one case a whole troop's worth. The Silverado is an inadequate substitute for the missing LUVWs for several reasons. This problem has been aggravated by the Army decision to convert all Res Cavalry to Recce, thus creating a demand for LUVW that did not previously exist. I believe that an additional buy of LUVWs will be made to cover part of this shortage, but at the time of my depl over here that was not finalized.

Finally, I think you are being   a bit hard on the Reserve folks here. Most of them are not trying to "BS" anybody-they are trying to find out the facts, or offering their own understanding of those facts, just as you have tried to do.   Your attitude smells a bit of   RegF superiority-on this site we usually try to stay away from that sort of thing. Cheers.

 

[Kirkhill]

Is there ANY chance at all that either/or/or both  the Milverado and the G-Wagen might be aquired in an open configuration?

I note that the Australians, Brits, Jordanians, French, New Zealanders and now the Irish, to name a few all field vehicles that are open but with mine-protected floors.  They are fitted with "roll-over" cages and often with integrated ring mounts for Heavy Weapons.  They are deployed not just by Special Forces but also by "line" and "light" infantry.

Other characteristics seem to be that the CC is seated beside the driver with a pintle mounted MG in front of him but his seat is raised to give him improved site lines and a greater arc of fire.

The reason I bring this up here is that one of the latest versions is based on the Ford F350 super pickup with its top chopped off and its doors removed. It is employed by the Irish.

Vehicles of this type range from sub-compact jeeps to 2 tonne trucks.

Or is this just so much wishful thinking?

 

[pbi]

I agree this is the way to go. I think we discussed this under:
http://army.ca/forums/threads/18423/post-108226.html#msg108226
Cheers

 

[Kirkhill]

You're right pbi.  Just frustration on my part.   Cheers.

 

[Bushman]

don't mean to butt in and intrude, but i have seen several civvie licenced Iltis's here in vancouver and victoria on the logging roads  and old decommissioned mining roads. these litle vehicles seem to be the perfect thing for this enviroment. easy to field fix, lightweight (read: easy to extract) and fuel effiecent. from what i have read and understand, the govner' is replacing these with the GMC silverado... um why? i can see major problems down the road...ie: all the computers on the GMC, sensors etc failing in the field. whereas the iltis has none of this computer crap............

but i am not surprised..........the govmint has always sold you guys out!!! makes me angry...... :rage:

 

[Gunnerlove]

I am sure that when the Iltises were new they were a decent vehicle. 18 years later they ours are worn out and deep into POS territory. If Canada was to buy some of the thousands of ex German Iltises to replace our overused ones it might be a cost effective stop gap to buy us some time to figure out what we are going to replace the Iltis with.

I was reading the manual for the Milverado and they seem to have enough towing capacity to tow a much heavier load than a C3 howitzer. I wonder if we could use them like the Americans use their Hummers and light guns (one towing the gun and one hauling ammo).

Nah, never happen. 

 

[12alfa]

Finally, I think you are being   a bit hard on the Reserve folks here. Most of them are not trying to "BS" anybody-they are trying to find out the facts, or offering their own understanding of those facts, just as you have tried to do.   Your attitude smells a bit of   RegF superiority-on this site we usually try to stay away from that sort of thing. Cheers.

If your hanging out here you will get a lot of this. I have gotton over it, it was not easy but do-able. Some things don't change, it's the 80's all over again.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Some things don't change, it's the 80's all over again.

You really think it has gone back to that?

Dave
Res 80-88, Reg 88-04

 

[12alfa]

You really think it has gone back to that?

Dave
Res 80-88, Reg 88-04

Re-read that post, now tell me.

This fourm has lots of them there posts.Why we can't all get along is beyond me. Thank god the younger troops don't know of this attitude we have lived through. It's changed for the better, but it's still there, just underground I think.

 

[Fraser.g]

Sorry but by what I have seen in the three weeks that we have gotten them they suck!

1. Suspension: One of th Milcots dented the skid plate when crossing a cattle guard at 10 KPH (check the computer). So much for the harder suspension.

2. Deployability:  They can not be deployed overseas. So much for training on the equipment that you will actually use.

3. Cost:  Correct me if I am wrong but I am under the impression that the Milcot has cost $80000 a unit and th G wagon is $60000. How is this a savings by giving the reserves crap?

JMO

 

[pbi]

Folks: I suggest you try:
http://army.ca/forums/threads/20049.0.html

where you'll find a good discussion of this subject under "Equipment//Vehicles".

Cheers.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

12Alfa,

I'm not so sure that this board is the best bellweather.  My sense is that things are a lot better than they were - but maybe becuase I refuse to be baited, and ignore trolls of all types.

 

[pbi]

If your hanging out here you will get a lot of this. I have gotton over it, it was not easy but do-able. Some things don't change, it's the 80's all over again.

To tell you the truth, I don't really see a lot of Strat10's kind of attitude, thankfully. The inter-component relation seems to work pretty well here, which to me is one of the great attributes of this site. I would have to side with PPCLI Guy (why do I do that so much.........?) in suggesting that while there are still idiots on both sides of the fence, the Reg/Res relationship is way better than it was when I served as a Reserve soldier 74-82. Cheers.

 

[12alfa]

To tell you the truth, I don't really see a lot of Strat10's kind of attitude, thankfully. The inter-component relation seems to work pretty well here, which to me is one of the great attributes of this site. I would have to side with PPCLI Guy (why do I do that so much.........?) in suggesting that while there are still idiots on both sides of the fence, the Reg/Res relationship is way better than it was when I served as a Reserve soldier 74-82. Cheers.

I would agree with you on this also.

Maybe in my old age i'm a bit short fuse'ed. Things are much better, I can see that.

i did not want to say it was all bad, sry, I'll give myself a few extra's.

 

[Fraser.g]

I have just got back from my first full ex with th milcot and have to say that although very comfortable in the commute form the armory to the field you could not go above 30 KPH in the training area with out grounding out the undercarage on th wheel ruts. The new "militarized suspension" is a joke the addition of two troops into the jump seat caused the "combat anchor" also known as the rear diff to ground out on several occasions.
I think that this prob could be remedied by stiffening the suspension, and the simple addion of larger wheels. The better solution would be the above and a lift kit for more clearance. Just the opinion of a Jr Officer that is stuck with the truck and is missing his ILTIS.