Korean War Insignia
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Commonwealth Patch, 25 Canadian Infantry Brigade Grp Patch.
Further to Recce Guy's posts, the upper one is the patch of the British Commowealth Division in Korea.
I think, and I am not sure, that the seond was a patch used by Canadian troops deployed on UN missions well into the sixties. I think I can recall troops on UNEF and even in Cyprus wearing it. Any assistance would be appreciated. It was used in place of a Canada flash.
I think, and I am not sure, that the seond was a patch used by Canadian troops deployed on UN missions well into the sixties. I think I can recall troops on UNEF and even in Cyprus wearing it. Any assistance would be appreciated. It was used in place of a Canada flash.
Blackadder1916
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http://mpmuseum.org/unkorea.html
In a couple of books sitting on my shelves, a number of photos provide good examples of the wear as noted above, however the use of the Commonwealth Div patch is only evident in photos showing Brigadier Rockingham, with most others appearing not to have this insignia on their left sleeve. The continued use of the bde patch as a national identifier possibly lasted until our current distinctive Canadian flag was adopted and started to be used as such on uniforms. The use of the "patch" as a national identifier is evident in photos of Canadians on UN ops in Gaza/Sinai, Congo and Cyprus. In this use it may not have been strictly an "army" insignia as I've seen one photo of an RCAF Cpl wearing it in the Congo (in same manner as army types - national identifier on left sleeve with the UN patch on the right sleeve).
(the following edited)
This patch (or Something similar may also have been was worn by Canadian troops of 27 Brigade when they were first shipped over to Germany. Photos show a patch of similar shape worn on the left sleeve but are not clear enough to provide detail. A little research provided the details of the patch of the short-lived 27 Brigade.
In a couple of books sitting on my shelves, a number of photos provide good examples of the wear as noted above, however the use of the Commonwealth Div patch is only evident in photos showing Brigadier Rockingham, with most others appearing not to have this insignia on their left sleeve. The continued use of the bde patch as a national identifier possibly lasted until our current distinctive Canadian flag was adopted and started to be used as such on uniforms. The use of the "patch" as a national identifier is evident in photos of Canadians on UN ops in Gaza/Sinai, Congo and Cyprus. In this use it may not have been strictly an "army" insignia as I've seen one photo of an RCAF Cpl wearing it in the Congo (in same manner as army types - national identifier on left sleeve with the UN patch on the right sleeve).
(the following edited)
Thanks very much for the info.
I recall a story I was told a long time ago that the canadian troops in Korea received US pattern helmets while they were there. I don't know if that means they were initially using the British ones and then replaced them, or if they didn't have any helmets at all until getting the US ones?
Can anyone help me with this one?
Thanks.
I recall a story I was told a long time ago that the canadian troops in Korea received US pattern helmets while they were there. I don't know if that means they were initially using the British ones and then replaced them, or if they didn't have any helmets at all until getting the US ones?
Can anyone help me with this one?
Thanks.
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2551... The Canadian troops have had steel helmets since WW1... we did not need to wait till the US gave us some of theirs - for us to, at long last wear helmets.
The field helmet in use by the Canadian Armed Forces at the time of Unification was the American designed M1 helmet. Adopted by Canada as standard in 1960, a limited number had been in Canadian service since the Second World War. The M1 helmet was made in two parts, an outer steel shell and a removable fibreglass liner.
http://mpmuseum.org/securhelmet.html
The field helmet in use by the Canadian Armed Forces at the time of Unification was the American designed M1 helmet. Adopted by Canada as standard in 1960, a limited number had been in Canadian service since the Second World War. The M1 helmet was made in two parts, an outer steel shell and a removable fibreglass liner.
http://mpmuseum.org/securhelmet.html
Thanks for that - , but I think I was not very clear as to my question.
I did know we had steel helmets. However, my understanding was that it was the British pattern helmet. My father told me that when he was in Korea, they were issued with US pattern helmets. (I won't say what he thought the reasons were). So my question is: did our troops have the British pattern helmet when they were sent to Korea, and were they actually replaced "in theatre", or did they simply not have any helmet until getting the american ones?
Cheers!
I did know we had steel helmets. However, my understanding was that it was the British pattern helmet. My father told me that when he was in Korea, they were issued with US pattern helmets. (I won't say what he thought the reasons were). So my question is: did our troops have the British pattern helmet when they were sent to Korea, and were they actually replaced "in theatre", or did they simply not have any helmet until getting the american ones?
Cheers!
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2551 said:
Yes, you were.
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The American M1 helmet was adopted by Canada as standard in 1960.
A limited number had been in Canadian service since the Second World War... IE - during the Korean war.
(Canadian members of the 1st SSF wore US pattern uniforms once their unit was stood up).
Troops deploy with a helmet. Upon arrival in theatre, if command made a decision to replace one helmet by another, then the old ones would be taken back in & the new ones given out.
A limited number had been in Canadian service since the Second World War... IE - during the Korean war.
(Canadian members of the 1st SSF wore US pattern uniforms once their unit was stood up).
Troops deploy with a helmet. Upon arrival in theatre, if command made a decision to replace one helmet by another, then the old ones would be taken back in & the new ones given out.
I have been through a number of books looking for references to steel helmets. To say that the record is spotty would be a huge understatement. It appears that troops deployed with the British pattern helment and that the Commonwealth Division soon stopped wearing helmets. It may indicate something in that the photos I have seen, the troops are wearing soft caps, berets or balaclavas or are bare-headed. The only reference I found to a Canadian wearing a steel helmet was an account of a soldier being killed when a splinter entered his head under the hard rubber head band. The British helmet had a hard rubber head band, unlike the American one.
If I have learned anything, it is that just because something is not in the written record is not conclusive proof that it did not happen. (I hope my multinegatives have not confused the issue.) It is entirely possible that one or more units got steel helmets through the US supply system by formal, legal or other means.
The purchase of American steel helmets during the Second World War is a bit of a red herring, although the Anglo-Canadian armies considered adopting it before the Normandy invasion.
If I have learned anything, it is that just because something is not in the written record is not conclusive proof that it did not happen. (I hope my multinegatives have not confused the issue.) It is entirely possible that one or more units got steel helmets through the US supply system by formal, legal or other means.
The purchase of American steel helmets during the Second World War is a bit of a red herring, although the Anglo-Canadian armies considered adopting it before the Normandy invasion.
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A RWpgRif WWII officer, LT "GI" James, MC wore a US Helmet, hence the nickname.
War correspondent Charles Lynch interviews a wounded soldier of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles at the battle for Carpiquet Airport, Normandy, 1944. Canada Post later commissioned the use of this image in 1995 for a stamp to commemorate the 50th annivesary of D-Day.
Sgt Nick Fritzs Pl Sgt C Coy 2 QOR of C, Korea 1954/55. Note patch.
Lt W (Bill) Wilson & Lt (Salty) John Saunders. "Trooping of the Rifle" Ceremony in Korea celebrating our Regimental Birthday in conjuction with the Royal Scots who were also celebrating their Regimental Birthday. Note patch.
Download the pictures and zoom to get a better view of the patches.
War correspondent Charles Lynch interviews a wounded soldier of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles at the battle for Carpiquet Airport, Normandy, 1944. Canada Post later commissioned the use of this image in 1995 for a stamp to commemorate the 50th annivesary of D-Day.
Sgt Nick Fritzs Pl Sgt C Coy 2 QOR of C, Korea 1954/55. Note patch.
Lt W (Bill) Wilson & Lt (Salty) John Saunders. "Trooping of the Rifle" Ceremony in Korea celebrating our Regimental Birthday in conjuction with the Royal Scots who were also celebrating their Regimental Birthday. Note patch.
Download the pictures and zoom to get a better view of the patches.
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Better copy of Sgt Fritzs
Blackadder1916
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Helmets . . . this montage came from the photo gallery at the Korea Veterans Association of Canada website.
Thanks everyone for the input. My conclusion is that they were initially issue with the British pattern helmet. What my father said was that they were issued with or loaned some American helmets. He went on to say that it was done in an effort to make the Chinese think they were American troops. To further ensure this deception, they made an effort to make themselves visible to the enemy, in silhouette, (I guess at dawn or dusk), while wearing the American helmets.
This is what he told me - I make no further claim than that - but I do believe him.
This is what he told me - I make no further claim than that - but I do believe him.
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Here is a RCD photo, circa 1953, and you can make out the "Tommy" helmet on the back of the LCol on the right.
exspy
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Blackadder,
What you have is the shoulder insignia of the 1st and 2nd Canadian Infantry Battalions, RCIC, which existed from 1951 to 1953. When the PANDA force was created for NATO service its personnel were recruited through existing militia regiments. The original force, from which the 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade Group was created, had three infantry rifle battalions; the 1st Canadian Infantry Battalion, the 1st Canadian Rifle Battalion and the 1st Canadian Highland Battalion. Each battalion drew their personnel from five militia infantry regiments of the same type (line, rifle or highland). Each militia regiment formed a complete company within that battalion with the headquarters being a composite. The individual companies wore their parent regiment's uniforms and insignia which required a complete uniform change for an inter-company transfer.
To provide a common insignia for a multi-uniformed battalion each wore a shield device on both arms. The centre device identified the individual battalion; a bayonet for the infantry, a thistle for the highlanders and a bugle horn for the rifles. When the second battalions were raised for reinforcements the devices were retained and used. In 1953 the battalions were redesignated as The Canadian Guards, The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada and the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, and the devices ceased to be used.
Check out Army Historical Report No. 51 at the DHist website. It details the history of 27th CIBG and is available online. It lists the 15 militia infantry regiments that contributed to the brigade group, along with those that created the remainder of the units.
Also, thanks for the photo of helmet use in Korea. First ones I've ever seen.
Cheers,
Dan.
What you have is the shoulder insignia of the 1st and 2nd Canadian Infantry Battalions, RCIC, which existed from 1951 to 1953. When the PANDA force was created for NATO service its personnel were recruited through existing militia regiments. The original force, from which the 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade Group was created, had three infantry rifle battalions; the 1st Canadian Infantry Battalion, the 1st Canadian Rifle Battalion and the 1st Canadian Highland Battalion. Each battalion drew their personnel from five militia infantry regiments of the same type (line, rifle or highland). Each militia regiment formed a complete company within that battalion with the headquarters being a composite. The individual companies wore their parent regiment's uniforms and insignia which required a complete uniform change for an inter-company transfer.
To provide a common insignia for a multi-uniformed battalion each wore a shield device on both arms. The centre device identified the individual battalion; a bayonet for the infantry, a thistle for the highlanders and a bugle horn for the rifles. When the second battalions were raised for reinforcements the devices were retained and used. In 1953 the battalions were redesignated as The Canadian Guards, The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada and the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, and the devices ceased to be used.
Check out Army Historical Report No. 51 at the DHist website. It details the history of 27th CIBG and is available online. It lists the 15 militia infantry regiments that contributed to the brigade group, along with those that created the remainder of the units.
Also, thanks for the photo of helmet use in Korea. First ones I've ever seen.
Cheers,
Dan.
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Photo A. 25 Canadian Infantry Brigade Battle School Uijongbu Korea 1954. Peter Rothwell, Australian Army, in the rear 3 from left. Assorted Brits, Canadians & Kiwis.
Photo B. Corporal Frank Walsh of the 1st Battalion, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, preparing for UN peacekeeping duty in the Middle East, November 1956. Note patch.
RCAMC in Korea. Note patch.
Shoulder patch 1st Canadian Highland Battalion.
I know a couple of guys who were in the 1st Canadian Rifle Battalion. I will ask if they still have their shoulder patch. The story of the 27 CIB was published in a recent edition of The Devils' Blast, the regimental magazine of The Royal Winnipeg Rifles. If you want a copy in Word, PM me.
Photo B. Corporal Frank Walsh of the 1st Battalion, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, preparing for UN peacekeeping duty in the Middle East, November 1956. Note patch.
RCAMC in Korea. Note patch.
Shoulder patch 1st Canadian Highland Battalion.
I know a couple of guys who were in the 1st Canadian Rifle Battalion. I will ask if they still have their shoulder patch. The story of the 27 CIB was published in a recent edition of The Devils' Blast, the regimental magazine of The Royal Winnipeg Rifles. If you want a copy in Word, PM me.
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As stated by exspy: Shoulder patch 1st Canadian Infantry Battalion.
Reposted to avoid confusion.
1st Canadian Rifle Battalion
27 Canadian Infantry Brigade
Reposted to avoid confusion.
1st Canadian Rifle Battalion
27 Canadian Infantry Brigade
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My father was with I RCHA in Korea.
I recall a story from him that there was an attempt at some point to make the Chinese believe the Canadian brigade was an American army unit. His version of events was that this was an attempt to lure the Chinese into an attack, since it was believed they thought the US army troops were of lower quality than the Commonwealth Division (or the US marines). That may be the incident referred to in which US-pattern helmets were issued.
I recall a story from him that there was an attempt at some point to make the Chinese believe the Canadian brigade was an American army unit. His version of events was that this was an attempt to lure the Chinese into an attack, since it was believed they thought the US army troops were of lower quality than the Commonwealth Division (or the US marines). That may be the incident referred to in which US-pattern helmets were issued.
Well, that is what my father said as well. He was in the PPCLI. If two people in two different units have told the same story, then there is most likely a high degree of truth to it. He was more than a little bitter that the American army had access to supplies that our fellows could only dream of - but were such poor fighters in spite of it.
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