JTF2 & AFG (merged)

[Love793]

Am I the only one to notice the discrepancies in the DND press release and the US "DoD" release?  The numbers don't match, and we can't be certain that the actions in question are the same incidents. As well,  not that I'm trying to defend our spin doctors, however the Pentagon is pretty good at winning the (dis)information war as well.  I'm sure there is a little bit disinformation spread regarding these actions as they have pretty stake in the theatre.

 

[tomahawk6]

http://www.canada.com:80/components/print.aspx?id=42f8826a-fba4-483e-bda6-fa351644ff2f

"The British officers say Taliban and al-Qaeda forces in southern Afghanistan are preparing for a large offensive soon after the Canadian and British troops arrive, backed by sophisticated weapons and training from Iran and Iraq."

The above paragraph I find to be very irresponsible and reflects the hysteria among the Brits that somehow they will see a level of fighting that they havent experienced in Iraq. The Taliban is not in a position to mount any kind of offensive in Afghanistan. That is not to say that there may be the odd suicide bomber, IED or car bomb but Afghanistan is not Iraq. The Afghans dont seem to have a culture of suicide that we see in the arab world.

 

[Armymedic]

True the Afghans do not have the suicide culture, but chances are, its not the Afghans who are blowing themselves up. And its not only the Taliban that has people worried. The Taliban has been learning it can't win thru force alone, nor on its own.

As for the precieved offensive for the spring, the Anti Coalition Armed Groups (ACAGs) have been learning over the last year or two how to fight against small coalition forces and be successful in afflicting causaulties on them.

To say the ACAGs are preparing to fight isn't irresponsible, its preplanning.  To figure your going to walk in unopposed as saviors and heroes would be irresponsible.

 

[Infanteer]

the Anti Coalition Armed Groups (ACAGs)

Whatever happened to just plain "insurgents" or "guerrillas"?  I mean, ACAGs is an intimidating term and all....  ^-^

 

[Devlin]

Not to go too far off topic but ACAG's reminds me of an acronym used in a training scenario at my unit. The acronym was CBAGS Cape Breton Airborne Gurellia Service...much laughter during the O group.

 

[KevinB]

Well I guess they sued over terminology since last year they where termed OMF's (Outlaw Militia Forces)

 

 

[regulator12]

Its going to be hot over there thats for sure....

 

[Dissident]

I object to the title of this thread. It is an obvious ploy to generate traffic!

(and I wanted to be able to post on the first page of a JTF2 thread.  By the time I usually get to them, its on page 18 or whatnot.)

Focus: Propaganda anyone? The public at large might only be dimly aware of our presence in 'stan. I can not fault them for trying to raise the profile a bit. Maybe I am in denial, since both internally and externally I have been warned of ther escalation of the conflict with the Taliban, but I can't seem to wrap my head around the "higher level of threat" for the comming roto.

 

[Journeyman]

Shared in accordance with legal mumbo-jumbo-speak of Copyright Act...

JTF2 scopes trained on Taliban elite
Elite commandos 'in demand,' says Gen. Hillier after speech
-- Article Link --

Mike Blanchfield
The Ottawa Citizen
Wednesday, March 28, 2007


Canada's ultra secretive JTF2 special forces commandos are becoming "tools of choice" in targeting top Taliban leaders in Afghanistan, the country's top soldier said yesterday.

Gen. Rick Hillier, chief of defence staff, spoke briefly on the operations of the Canadian Forces elite commando unit during an address to the Canadian Club of Ottawa.

"Our special forces are the tools of choice. They are in incredible demand. Our special forces are world class," Gen. Hillier told a luncheon gathering of several hundred.

In the past two years, Gen. Hillier said, JTF2 has been "growing their capacity" to conduct operations on Canadian soil "when needed" and also abroad, specifically Afghanistan.

"They have had significant impact in Afghanistan helping Afghans rebuild their country," Gen. Hillier said in a 45-minute speech in which he quickly singled out the unit for the work it is doing in Afghanistan before he moved on to other topics.

Asked after the speech to expand on the role of JTF2, Gen. Hillier indicated that the unit has taken the fight against the Taliban and anti-western insurgency in southern Afghanistan directly to its top leaders.

Gen. Hillier said the unit is offering "direct support to the Afghan government, and of course trying to mitigate the Taliban threat and particularly their leaders who intimidate, who coerce people into doing things for them. At the soldier level, trying to help neutralize those leaders is a key part of their role and that's what they will continue to do."

Gen. Hillier declined to discuss the matter further.

As a rule, the government does not publicly discuss the operations of JTF2.

The unit operates under a shroud of secrecy, outside the command structure of the regular army.

Even its size is not known, though it has mounted an extensive recruiting drive in recent years that is believed to have more than doubled the unit's strength from its original size of about 300 soldiers.

Some critics say the secrecy policy does not hold it to account and leaves it with a virtual carte blanche.

Original article continues...

The line about JTF-2 operating "under a shroud of secrecy, outside the command structure of the regular army," while technically correct, implies that they are out-of-control renegades under no command structure.

The org-chart reality of Chief of the Land Staff versus Commander CANSOFCOM responsibilities will be lost on most of the public...leading to more hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth. Wonderful.

 

[geo]

Shroud of secrecy = as to not advertising what they do or when they do and who they do.

Outside the command structure = not part of the regular standard structure ie, not part of the Regular Brigades or TFs for that matter.

There is structure, there is a chain of command.

And to the boys & girls at JTF2 and CSOR, keep up the good work!

Chimo!

 

[ArmyRick]

Good work, guys!

 

[Armymedic]

Similar story from the Star.

http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/196777

Elite forces 'tool of choice' in Afghanistan

Canadian Special Forces regiment and the Joint Task Force 2 successful in disrupting Taliban, 'neutralizing' enemy leaders

March 28, 2007
Bruce Campion-Smith
OTTAWA BUREAU

OTTAWA–Canada's special forces teams have become the "tool of choice" in Afghanistan where the shadowy soldiers are targeting Taliban leaders, Gen. Rick Hillier says.

And he suggested yesterday that the elite forces – which include the newly formed Canadian Special Forces regiment and the Joint Task Force 2 – have had success in their secret missions to disrupt insurgent operations and "neutralize" enemy leaders.

"They have had significant impacts in Afghanistan," the chief of defence staff said yesterday in a speech to the Canadian Club of Ottawa. "Our special forces are the tool of choice. They are in incredible demand.

"We've watched the results over the last couple of years in particular, growing their capacity to conduct operations here at home when needed and around the world."

Military commanders have always been tight-lipped about the capabilities of these specialized units, which have been operating in Afghanistan since late 2001.

Hillier described the job that these units have been asked to do.

"They're playing a role in support of our mission in Afghanistan ... and of course trying to mitigate the Taliban threat and in particular their leaders who intimidate, coerce people into doing things," he told reporters after the speech.

"At the soldier level, trying to help neutralize those leaders is a key part of their role and that's what they'll continue to do. Beyond that I would not say anything more."

On the home front, Hillier apologized for the military's poor treatment of families of Canadian soldiers injured and killed in action and vowed to do better. "I apologize for that myself. We'll make amends for it and we'll get it better if we have wounded soldiers or worse next time out," he said.

Families complain of bureaucratic red tape, saying they are often stonewalled in their requests for information about their loved ones.

For example, Ben Walsh condemned the military police who probed the death of his son Master Cpl. Jeffrey Walsh, who was accidentally killed in Afghanistan last August, saying the family was kept in the dark while the investigation dragged on.

The military ombudsman as well has called on commanders to be "more compassionate, more proactive, more understanding" in their dealings with families. Next month the ombudsman is expected to issue a report again scolding the defence department on the topic.

Hillier struck an optimistic tone about the Afghanistan mission, telling the audience that he has seen real progress in his four visits to the country during the last six months.

The Panjwaii district west of Kandahar – scene of a massive Canadian offensive last September – is returning to normal with "tens of thousands" of people moving back to the region, he said. Auxiliary police stations now dot areas that were once "hotbeds for the Taliban."

"The Afghan National Army is present in large numbers, larger than we've ever seen in the south before, and folks are back getting on with their normal life.

"Men come up and talk to our soldiers. That's the first time that's occurring in numbers in the Panjwaii since we've been there. They tell us where the Taliban are and what they're trying to do."

Still, he cautioned that he expects to see more insurgent attacks over the coming months like the one Monday when an ambush and suicide bombing injured two soldiers.

"We know we're going to have a surge of the Taliban," he said.

It is nice to see in this article that Mr. Campion-Smith recognizes the other special forces unit in Canada. I believe Mr Blanchfield did not do much homework for his article.

reutside the chain of command,
I do believe that even Can SF forces still answer to the Commander of CEFCOM, and upward to the MND.

 

[Mike Baker]

Good work lads   

 

[Sapplicant]

Here we go again.  :









title tweak

 

[PuckChaser]

Sounds like a mountain out of a molehill. Nothing criminal was found in the original Sand Trap, however they found irregularities which will always come up when you take a microscope to something. I'm willing to bet the media is going to feed off this for a while, forcing the CF to release the results to Sand Trap II without an AIA request. The BN supplied by CBC is redacted enough that they have no idea what is being investigated, only that it was in a BN specifically about detainees.

 

[brihard]

Given that we operate overseas in pursuit of the national interest, and on behalf of - and representing - all Canadians, I think it's wholly appropriate that we be subject to such oversight as is necessary to make sure the average reasonable citizen of our country is assured that we're faithfully doing what is expected of us, and adhering the values to which we as a nation subscribe.

Yeah, it can make things awkward as hell and difficult, and it puts some constraints on us when we're forced to 'play nice', but we're an army serving a free state. I'd rather we be constrained by an open public discourse on our actions and behaviour if it means that we keep ourselves honest and in line.

I don't expect this to be a popular opinion around here, but hell, nothing new there. If nothing else, erring on the side of caution allows us at the end of the day to say, "See? We did nothing wrong." with no substantive doubt remaining for silly notions to be built upon.

 

[Container]

Brihard,

Do you really think that when an investigation is completed and clears criminal wrongdoing- and then several ATIP requests later the media gets to play havoc with the details for the sake of sensational press it creates well informed Canadians with their minds at ease? (of course that is personal opinion!)

Retractions go in the backpages. By the time the media says "my bad" the damage has been done.

I respect your opinion, and when it comes to honesty and transparency I agree- but where I disagree is that the motivations of this story is good old fashioned informative reporting. The story I read in CBC didnt even really seem sure what it was supposed to be reporting. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

I suppose we shall see!

The bottom of the CBC article goes out of its way to make sure that its understood that JTF-2 was taking tactical direction from "the Americans". Its just tripe as far as I read.....

 

[The Bread Guy]

I'm willing to bet the media is going to feed off this for a while ....

Among others:

Liberal House Leader David McGuinty says he is extremely troubled by news that the Canadian military is investigating the actions of its elite special forces in Afghanistan.

"This is a really serious matter, and I think it really underscores what we’ve been saying for some time — that there’s more here than meets the eye," McGuinty told reporters Tuesday in Ottawa.

(....)

"If these allegations prove true, my understanding is that this investigation was occurring at a time when our own minister of national defence [Peter MacKay] was being asked repeatedly for any knowledge that he might have had about allegations of torture or ongoing investigations," McGuinty said.

"It’s particularly worrisome for me that this whole matter was broken apparently or revealed by a JTF2 member who obviously felt, I guess, according to reports, enough responsibility or enough seriousness around this that they came forward and broke ranks, so to speak," he added.

(...)

 

[PuckChaser]

Oh great, now the Liberals have a martyr in this unknown SF soldier as the great whistleblower in CANSOFCOM. Obviously the fact that this person's allegations have gone after almost 2 years of investigation without charges being laid has completely skipped over their heads.

 

[greentoblue]

Ah Scott Taylor showing how modern journalism really works.  Without any evidence he decides that the best course is to follow Jean Chretien's dictum that the best course of action is to blame the Americans:

"He was reluctant to speculate what the substance of the JTF2 complaint was but said it could stem from a soldier’s disquiet with how joint operations with the U.S. were conducted.

“It could be someone queasy about American procedures as opposed to our own,” Mr. Taylor said."

How he reached this marvelously convenient conclusion when the story starts out alleging one JTF2 operator made allegations against another, who presumably is a Canadian soldier, without any proof or even allegation he does not bother explain.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/commandos-complaint-sparked-newly-revealed-probes-into-handling-of-afghan-prisoners/article1707797/