Infantry officer Phase 3

[1911CoLt45]

Good day

Can anyone comment on experiences past of present on their Infantry officer phase 3 course.  I have heard that it is something else, and was just trying to get a broader understanding of the course. Really heard it separates the people who can and cannot due to trade.  Any comments?

 

[aesop081]

Herd : A herd is a large group of animals and is a form of collective animal behavior.

Heard : Past tense of hear, relating to hearing.

 

[1911CoLt45]

Thanks

Have you sceen any interesting things below the ocean waves in your trade Can av?

 

[Comrade]

What do you want to know? I was just on the last course they ran so you can ask me anything. First off, it's a bagdrive. You will have no life for 15 weeks. BMOQ and CAP don't prepare you enough for the stuff you'll face on DP 1.1. The PT is much more intense. Stuff like doing a BFT uphill with wet boots and your feet frozen solid after being in the field already for 5 days with no sleep. Doing withdrawals over 28km in 48 hours while carrying all of your platoon weapons and equipment. The weight you'll carry is unimaginable. Trying to give your platoon orders and lead an attack with gas masks on and it's pissing rain. Night NAVEXs all by yourself (no radio, so don't get lost!) in the Gagetown swamps with no light allowed and needing to find ridiculous precise spots. Make sure you've got your patrolling down too. You'll be doing a lot of those (and they're adding more for future 1.1s). The field is what will break you. Running patrols and platoon attacks all day and then writing TEWTs and your orders all night. Just expect to get no sleep whatsoever. And if the instructors don't think you'll cut it as an Infantry Officer, they'll drive you out of the trade or the CF altogether (I've seen it happen). But that's the way the course needs to be, so just suck it up and get through it. Have fun!

 

[ballz]

Night NAVEXs all by yourself (no radio, so don't get lost!) in the Gagetown swamps with no light allowed and needing to find ridiculous precise spots.

That sounds exciting though.

And if the instructors don't think you'll cut it as an Infantry Officer, they'll drive you out of the trade or the CF altogether (I've seen it happen). But that's the way the course needs to be, so just suck it up and get through it. Have fun!

What was the pass rate for your course? How many were on the course? How many were repeating the course and were they on their 2nd/3rd go at it?

 

[vonGarvin]

I'll add some clarity here on what is expected of candidates for IODP 1.1 (Infantry Officer Development period 1.1, "Dismounted Platoon Commander")
There are five basic modules:
1st is Weapons.  Here you will cover the platoon weapons and fire them.  Important here is to remember the characteristics of them, as you will be expected to know this more than the stoppage drills, as an example (though handling is also key, given that you will be operating them throughout the course).  What I mean is that when you are setting up your guns, etc, you'll have to explain the why things are set where they are.  For example: "Sir, the MG is here such that it can provide grazing fire across the front of 6 platoon to our left.  It is in defilade to the probably enemy approaches to our front, and is sited in conjunction with 4 platoon's MG further in depth.  It has mutual protection from 2 section to the front, and its arcs are interlocked with the LMGs from 2 section and those of 6 platoon."  Stuff like that.
Next is defensive operations.  Here you will also begin to implement the estimate.  Now, I don't teach the course, but I have attended a few PRBs in which candidates have said "I didn't have time to do an estimate, so I just wrote my orders."  BUNK.  Do your estimate right, and it completes your orders for you.  Anyway, in a static location, the defensive is the place to begin to understand the process of completing an estimate.
Third is offensive operations.  Here you will conduct hasty estimates and lead hasty attacks.  You will build further on the skills you learned in the first two modules.
Fourth is patrolling.  As mentioned, there will be more patrols in the upcoming courses (it's a scheduling thing).
Finally, you have "full spectrum operations".  This part used to be pretty well COE stuff.  It will still have that, but it will also remember that combat is within the full spectrum of operations.  So, in here, expect to advance to contact, dig in, patrol etc ad nauseum.  Following that, your environment may get more permissive. 
One last point.  The exercises will be long.  Expect to deploy for 8-10 straight days per ex, four (or so) in total. 
Now, how to prepare?  Get in shape.  Start now.  The kind of shape you need is endurance.  Be able to walk for ~48 km over 2-3 days carrying ~100 lbs of "stuff".  And be able to lead.  The mind will go when you're tired, so you best start NOW by being able to last AND FUNCTION in such an environment.
How to do that?  Start with building up endurance by running.  Go for distance not for speed.  EG: if it takes you an hour to run 10 km, then that's fine.  Just run 2-3 times a week, for a total of ~50 km/week.  Dont' forget to build muscle by doing other training as well (swimming, weights, etc). 
As for the failure rate, it was relatively low since last June.  The RTU rate, however, is high (+50%).  Most are due to injuries that are a direct result of poor physical fitness.  Some were just dumb rotten luck (eg: twisted ankles, etc).  The school can accomodate some things, but one thing to remember is this: there is no "magic timeline" to be absent from training, eg: 48 hours and you're gone.  As the TP states (and I paraphrase) "The Commandant can remove a candidate from the course for missing any training".  The key is ANY training.  You see, the idea is not just to do an assessed task and then off to the MIR.  One component to each PO (Performance Objective) is to participate in the entire exercise.  Troops overseas are routinely away from FOBs, etc, for lengths of time longer than your exercises, carrying similar weight loads and in extreme weather.  So the school will NOT graduate anyone who cannot last.

I hope this helps.

 

[vonGarvin]

And if the instructors don't think you'll cut it as an Infantry Officer, they'll drive you out of the trade or the CF altogether (I've seen it happen). But that's the way the course needs to be, so just suck it up and get through it. Have fun!

For clarity, that's not 100% accurate, but fairly close.  If you fail, or if your performance is assessed to be "not up to snuff", you may progress to a Progress Review Board, chaired by the commandant, and attended by the Chief Instructor, the Chief Standards Officer, the Adjutant, Course Staff, the Company OC and the RSM.  Recommendations will be made to the commandant, and the choices for officer candidates on IODP 1.1 are as follows:
Retain on Course
Cease Training.
If a member Ceased Training, then the commandant makes one of the following recommendations on the course report, which are directed to the member's commanding officer:
Recourse
Release from the CF
Compulsory Occupational Transfer
(In the case of OCdt) reversion to NCM.
If you are posted to the infantry school, then those recommendations are to himself, essentially.  Your file, then, is passed to the BPSO if anything other than retain on course or recourse.  Ottawa decides on release or OT, but you're right, the recommendation is a pretty big part of it.

 

[ballz]

1st is Weapons.  Here you will cover the platoon weapons and fire them.

Okay, so Phase 1 we learned C7A1, Phase 2 we will learn pistol, grenade, and LMG, so the Phase 3 weapons are the C6 and mortar? anything else?

Do the modules work the same as in CAP/BMOQ-L, where as if you've completed 3 modules and then get RTU'd, you get to keep those 3 modules?

Failure rate low eh?... I kinda expected the academics to start to weed a few people out at this point. Well at least the high RTU will make up for it

 

[vonGarvin]

Okay, so Phase 1 we learned C7A1, Phase 2 we will learn pistol, grenade, and LMG, so the Phase 3 weapons are the C6 and mortar? anything else?

Do the modules work the same as in CAP/BMOQ-L, where as if you've completed 3 modules and then get RTU'd, you get to keep those 3 modules?

For weapons, add the 84mm, M203 and I'm not sure what else right now.
As for "keeping" mods, it depends.  The recommendation about to go up is this:
If you are assessed as a training failure, you fail THE COURSE, not just the mod, and you get to start over again.  The main argument is that the learning is progressive, and even though you failed a patrol (for example), it may be because of stuff not mastered from previous mods, in spite of passing said POs.  But as it stands now, yes, if you are ceased training, you keep mods already passed; however, there is a five year time limit from when you first start IODP 1.1 until you can complete it.

 

[daftandbarmy]

What do you want to know? I was just on the last course they ran so you can ask me anything. First off, it's a bagdrive. You will have no life for 15 weeks. BMOQ and CAP don't prepare you enough for the stuff you'll face on DP 1.1. The PT is much more intense. Stuff like doing a BFT uphill with wet boots and your feet frozen solid after being in the field already for 5 days with no sleep. Doing withdrawals over 28km in 48 hours while carrying all of your platoon weapons and equipment. The weight you'll carry is unimaginable. Trying to give your platoon orders and lead an attack with gas masks on and it's pissing rain. Night NAVEXs all by yourself (no radio, so don't get lost!) in the Gagetown swamps with no light allowed and needing to find ridiculous precise spots. Make sure you've got your patrolling down too. You'll be doing a lot of those (and they're adding more for future 1.1s). The field is what will break you. Running patrols and platoon attacks all day and then writing TEWTs and your orders all night. Just expect to get no sleep whatsoever. And if the instructors don't think you'll cut it as an Infantry Officer, they'll drive you out of the trade or the CF altogether (I've seen it happen). But that's the way the course needs to be, so just suck it up and get through it. Have fun!

And if you're a reservist, of course, you have to be twice as good to make it through!  :camo:

 

[vonGarvin]

And if you're a reservist, of course, you have to be twice as good to make it through!  :camo:

:rofl:
Actually, there is some merit in that.  But not in the sense of "Hey, you're a mo-litia candidate?  OK, you'll need to do EVEN BETTER to pass this one, sonny!"  More of the line of the fact that this is their time off from their 365 job, and their summer breaks are spent running around Gagetown, whereas for us regulars, we run around anywhere BUT Gagetown on our summer breaks.

All in all, though, candidates are candidates, and we have found that the difference between the reg and reserve candidates just isn't there.  There are good, and there are junk on both sides of the fence, spread about equally.

 

[daftandbarmy]

:rofl:
Actually, there is some merit in that.  But not in the sense of "Hey, you're a mo-litia candidate?  OK, you'll need to do EVEN BETTER to pass this one, sonny!"  More of the line of the fact that this is their time off from their 365 job, and their summer breaks are spent running around Gagetown, whereas for us regulars, we run around anywhere BUT Gagetown on our summer breaks.

All in all, though, candidates are candidates, and we have found that the difference between the reg and reserve candidates just isn't there.  There are good, and there are junk on both sides of the fence, spread about equally.

I know, I know... I'm just flashing back to when I did Phase III. I think Hannbal was was the OC and we had some of his elephants as DS.

 

[Infanteer]

What do you want to know? I was just on the last course they ran so you can ask me anything. First off, it's a bagdrive. You will have no life for 15 weeks. BMOQ and CAP don't prepare you enough for the stuff you'll face on DP 1.1. The PT is much more intense. Stuff like doing a BFT uphill with wet boots and your feet frozen solid after being in the field already for 5 days with no sleep. Doing withdrawals over 28km in 48 hours while carrying all of your platoon weapons and equipment. The weight you'll carry is unimaginable. Trying to give your platoon orders and lead an attack with gas masks on and it's pissing rain. Night NAVEXs all by yourself (no radio, so don't get lost!) in the Gagetown swamps with no light allowed and needing to find ridiculous precise spots. Make sure you've got your patrolling down too. You'll be doing a lot of those (and they're adding more for future 1.1s). The field is what will break you. Running patrols and platoon attacks all day and then writing TEWTs and your orders all night. Just expect to get no sleep whatsoever. And if the instructors don't think you'll cut it as an Infantry Officer, they'll drive you out of the trade or the CF altogether (I've seen it happen). But that's the way the course needs to be, so just suck it up and get through it. Have fun!

...and then you get to Afghanistan and get a full nights sleep, a nice slow pace on the patrol and a hot meal with the ANA! 

 

[vonGarvin]

...and then you get to Afghanistan and get a full nights sleep, a nice slow pace on the patrol and a hot meal with the ANA! 

True, but nobody actually shoots at you or plants real IEDs over here on Phase III. 



Not yet, at least  >

 

[Comrade]

That sounds exciting though.

What was the pass rate for your course? How many were on the course? How many were repeating the course and were they on their 2nd/3rd go at it?

Yeah, it was exciting, until you faceplant in the dark, roll your ankle, lose your headlamp in a swamp, and only having your indiglo watch to charge your compass. Oh yeah, and then someone loses a C9 barrel in the woods and you have to spend the next 2 days searching the training area in an extended line. Haha, good times.

For our course, I think the most candidates we had at one time was 45, and something like 21 finished. There were probably about 10 guys on their second go around.  I heard the failure rate for the summer course was around 70%. You get 3 chances at it and then you need to look for a new trade.

 

[Comrade]

For weapons, add the 84mm, M203 and I'm not sure what else right now.

You learn the C6 (in the light and sustained fire role with the tripod), M203, 84mm Carl G, NM72 SRAAW, Eyrx weapon system, 60mm mortar, and  claymores. The day on the range was the most fun. Especially since we had HE rounds for the Carl G. But of course, be prepared for a long ruck back to base at the end of the day. There's something like 7 BFTs in the course.

 

[vonGarvin]

For our course, I think the most candidates we had at one time was 45, and something like 21 finished.

Fairly accurate.

There were probably about 10 guys on their second go around. 

Probably more, but I'm not sure of the numbers.

I heard the failure rate for the summer course was around 70%.

You heard wrong.  The FAILURE rate was closer to 15-20%.  The RTU rate (all causes, from voluntary to medical to compassionate) made it up to around 55%.

You get 3 chances at it and then you need to look for a new trade.

Not true at all.  In some cases, first FAILURE and you could be offered a new trade, or release.  Multiple FAILURES *usually* results in either OT or release.  It all depends.

 

[Redeye]

This is the ideal advice.  1.1 is about tenacity and teamwork.  You will be amazed when you come out of the field what you've just done, but the key is to be able to force yourself to do those things while you are there - you will be tired, cold (even in the summer!), have trouble focusing, never have enough time to do everything you think you have to - but you will find that as a team you will get through it.

I was one of those Reservists who had to do it in fits and starts and it was amazing to see the different "cultures" that arose in each course - the way each platoon worked together and the experiences with each was different, but the unifying theme was lead when it's your turn to lead, follow when you have to follow, and push yourself as hard as you can.  There will be people not as fit as others, there will be people who will take on more than their fair share of loads because they can but as long as you are working as part of the team you can endure.

The worst thing to see (and I saw it throughout, save for my last trip to Gagetown) is the people who get their check in the box and magically disappear to sick parade.  Those folks get weeded out pretty fast.  I remember during defensive week, one of the "wise old soldiers", a CFR, basically marched me to the WO to go see medics because I had developed what turned out to be a pretty nasty sinus infection that left me throwing up, unable to breathe etc, I didn't want to go but he was (rightly) concerned that I might have something that could spread like wildfire throughout the course.  I've never been as panicked about being RTU as that moment because of missed training, but I got lucky and didn't miss anything important.

1.1 is, at the end, fun.  I've made some of my best friends on that course, seen that physical limitations can be blown through by the determined mind, and learned a lot about myself and what it is to lead.  But you have absolutely to be ready for it.

I'll add some clarity here on what is expected of candidates for IODP 1.1 (Infantry Officer Development period 1.1, "Dismounted Platoon Commander")
There are five basic modules:
1st is Weapons.  Here you will cover the platoon weapons and fire them.  Important here is to remember the characteristics of them, as you will be expected to know this more than the stoppage drills, as an example (though handling is also key, given that you will be operating them throughout the course).  What I mean is that when you are setting up your guns, etc, you'll have to explain the why things are set where they are.  For example: "Sir, the MG is here such that it can provide grazing fire across the front of 6 platoon to our left.  It is in defilade to the probably enemy approaches to our front, and is sited in conjunction with 4 platoon's MG further in depth.  It has mutual protection from 2 section to the front, and its arcs are interlocked with the LMGs from 2 section and those of 6 platoon."  Stuff like that.
Next is defensive operations.  Here you will also begin to implement the estimate.  Now, I don't teach the course, but I have attended a few PRBs in which candidates have said "I didn't have time to do an estimate, so I just wrote my orders."  BUNK.  Do your estimate right, and it completes your orders for you.  Anyway, in a static location, the defensive is the place to begin to understand the process of completing an estimate.
Third is offensive operations.  Here you will conduct hasty estimates and lead hasty attacks.  You will build further on the skills you learned in the first two modules.
Fourth is patrolling.  As mentioned, there will be more patrols in the upcoming courses (it's a scheduling thing).
Finally, you have "full spectrum operations".  This part used to be pretty well COE stuff.  It will still have that, but it will also remember that combat is within the full spectrum of operations.  So, in here, expect to advance to contact, dig in, patrol etc ad nauseum.  Following that, your environment may get more permissive. 
One last point.  The exercises will be long.  Expect to deploy for 8-10 straight days per ex, four (or so) in total. 
Now, how to prepare?  Get in shape.  Start now.  The kind of shape you need is endurance.  Be able to walk for ~48 km over 2-3 days carrying ~100 lbs of "stuff".  And be able to lead.  The mind will go when you're tired, so you best start NOW by being able to last AND FUNCTION in such an environment.
How to do that?  Start with building up endurance by running.  Go for distance not for speed.  EG: if it takes you an hour to run 10 km, then that's fine.  Just run 2-3 times a week, for a total of ~50 km/week.  Dont' forget to build muscle by doing other training as well (swimming, weights, etc). 
As for the failure rate, it was relatively low since last June.  The RTU rate, however, is high (+50%).  Most are due to injuries that are a direct result of poor physical fitness.  Some were just dumb rotten luck (eg: twisted ankles, etc).  The school can accomodate some things, but one thing to remember is this: there is no "magic timeline" to be absent from training, eg: 48 hours and you're gone.  As the TP states (and I paraphrase) "The Commandant can remove a candidate from the course for missing any training".  The key is ANY training.  You see, the idea is not just to do an assessed task and then off to the MIR.  One component to each PO (Performance Objective) is to participate in the entire exercise.  Troops overseas are routinely away from FOBs, etc, for lengths of time longer than your exercises, carrying similar weight loads and in extreme weather.  So the school will NOT graduate anyone who cannot last.

I hope this helps.

 

[1911CoLt45]

Good info on the course guys its greatly appreciated.

 

[mrpumo]

Oh yeah, and then someone loses a C9 barrel in the woods and you have to spend the next 2 days searching the training area in an extended line. Haha, good times.

Hey man we got out of a 15 km ruck march back from the range.... and the forest is so pretty in the fall....