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Hamas invaded Israel 2023

  • Thread starter Thread starter McG
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Furniture said:
Have you considered that people were actually opposed to the EA, and not the clearing of protestors?
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I was one of those. I didn’t think the EA was necessary. But I wanted the local authorities to do their jobs and end it.
Furniture said:
I know it's convenient to paint people with a different opinions as dumb hypocrites, but it's not always(or often) the case.
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There were enough people happily encouraging public disorder at that time and downplaying it, that are now decrying what they are seeing in this sort of protest and want the law brought down on them.
 
dimsum said:
I’d say “hey there’s another thread for that” but in case people forgot - there were also related blockades at the Ambassador Bridge and Coutts, AB.

But back to this thread, it’s interesting that the President of Columbia University is vilified from both sides for completely opposite reasons - “they’ve gone too far” vs “they haven’t gone far enough”. Also, I mentioned this before but some of the folks crying foul over the EA being used to clear the Convoy after 3 weeks in Ottawa are now perfectly fine with SPVM and SQ clearing out student protesters in McGill after far less time.

They are both groups of (largely) Canadians who may have been bought in by misinformation and disinformation, and may (likely, but I digress) have been influenced by outside actors.
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Big difference between Municipal and Provincial LE doing their job, as oppose to ignoring it (and then the Fed stepping in).
 
These protests are going a great job of distracting western media attention from the actual war. I don’t think Israel really minds…
 
KevinB said:
Big difference between Municipal and Provincial LE doing their job, as oppose to ignoring it (and then the Fed stepping in).
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Unless you are talking about the military in an 'aid to the civil power' role, in law enforcement/public order terms, the "feds stepping in" isn't another level of heavy in Canada. All criminal law is federal and all front line law enforcement is provincial (incl. municipal should they choose to have a police service).

During Convoy times, the RCMP outside of Ontario and Quebec were acting in their provincial contract role. In Ottawa, they assisted because they were already there in numbers.

Or I'm misunderstanding.
 
Jarnhamar said:
Do you guys have some kind of Order 66 type thing where you switch from using minimal force to kicking in the doom music?
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I had to look that up . . .and no. Use of force has to be to effect a lawful purpose and reasonably no more than necessary. It doesn't matter if it is lone cop on the side of the road or 500 on a line, the authority to lawfully do what they do remains vested in the individual member, not the service or the civilian governing authorities.
 
lenaitch said:
Unless you are talking about the military in an 'aid to the civil power' role, in law enforcement/public order terms, the "feds stepping in" isn't another level of heavy in Canada. All criminal law is federal and all front line law enforcement is provincial (incl. municipal should they choose to have a police service).

During Convoy times, the RCMP outside of Ontario and Quebec were acting in their provincial contract role. In Ottawa, they assisted because they were already there in numbers.

Or I'm misunderstanding.
Click to expand...

Yup. There were already a couple thousand RCMP in Ottawa in their protective services (though they were already busy), in a few federal investigative units, and at their national headquarters. A bunch of the latter two got deployed to back up Ottawa Police in the downtown area and basically provide police presence.

Separate from that the Mounties also have their public order units, who are all part time volunteers who step away from regular duties. They have a team in Ottawa, but I also saw other RCMP public order teams who had come in from southern Ontario, Quebec, and Alberta. Similar to the municipal and provincial public order teams that drove/flew in from all over Canada.

All of those were based on the municipal request for assistance, and the operations plan that was put together initially by Ottawa Police and then by the unified incident command that came together late game. The deployment of officers from elsewhere in Ontario and Canada wasn’t something that was ordered or directed by the federal government. Police traveling for mutual assistance is reasonably common at the small scale (say, OPP or Toronto send backup to Kingston for the annual Queens University shit show) or sometimes at a larger scale for major events like a G7 summit or Olympics. Convoy was, I think, the largest such mutual assist in Canadian history. All done within existing legal authorities at the municipal and provincial level.
 
lenaitch said:
Unless you are talking about the military in an 'aid to the civil power' role, in law enforcement/public order terms, the "feds stepping in" isn't another level of heavy in Canada. All criminal law is federal and all front line law enforcement is provincial (incl. municipal should they choose to have a police service).
Click to expand...

lenaitch said:
During Convoy times, the RCMP outside of Ontario and Quebec were acting in their provincial contract role. In Ottawa, they assisted because they were already there in numbers.

Or I'm misunderstanding.
Click to expand...
My point was the EA was mainly due to OPS not dealing with the issue in a timely manner.

To me issuing the EA would have made sense IF the situation arose beyond what LE could handle, and for CAF assets to be requested under AtCP

Both you and @brihard have made it clear that the assets existed already, via mutual assistance, and so the EA was just another example of your current leader acting without his brain ;)
 
Here in Canada, survey says re: protest locations in general....
angusreid.org

Protest Positions: Canadians say universities are fair game for demonstrations; hospitals, schools less so -

Majorities believe it should be illegal to protest at a hospital, abortion clinics April 30, 2024 – While demonstrations are far from new phenomena in Canada, the last several months – and indeed – recent days, have put the question of where it is acceptable to protest under an increasingly...
angusreid.org angusreid.org
Archived here.
Screenshot 2024-04-30 135347.jpg
Deets on how it was done ....
Screenshot 2024-04-30 135451.jpg
 
KevinB said:
My point was the EA was mainly due to OPS not dealing with the issue in a timely manner.

To me issuing the EA would have made sense IF the situation arose beyond what LE could handle, and for CAF assets to be requested under AtCP

Both you and @brihard have made it clear that the assets existed already, via mutual assistance, and so the EA was just another example of your current leader acting without his brain ;)
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I agree, but the last thing I want to do is have the EA relitigated here. Had the OPS, with partners as required, acted in a timely manner to restore civil order to the public spaces in Ottawa, the EA would likely not have been necessary, since the Ottawa protest would have been shut down/scaled back and the others such as Coutts and Windsor might not have been so emboldened.

The EA and OPS regaining its spine happened around the same time, so we will never know if the outcome would have been much different without the EA. Other than some minor elements such as securing heavy wreckers, the police in Ottawa exercised no additional powers or authorities they didn't already possess.
 
Looks like NYPD has shut down external access to Columbia University and has massed public order units. Lots of various media getting posted about this now, but this is the best quick example I could find.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785454716551307679

EDIT TO ADD: Apparently City College of New York as well. I didn't realize there were two schools both involved.
 
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