Do Canadians even care anymore?

[venero]

Hopefully there will  be an election next year at some point to settel this minority government crap. And best case scenario that the Conservative party will get elected.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Ya cause when they get in power they never change their tune.

 

[Storm]

Hopefully there will   be an election next year at some point to settel this minority government crap. And best case scenario that the Conservative party will get elected.

A recent statement by McKay regarding the subs certainly diminishes my hopes that the Conservatives would be much better. He said, IIRC, that of course the brass would say the subs are good... he's sure those sailing on them would tell a different story. Now I'm certainly not a navy type myself, but I have talked to a few, all of whom seem to be in favour of the subs also (none of them being big brass). I can only conclude from this that McKay put words into the mouths of canadian sailors without talking to them first - just to score some cheap points out of a tragedy. Politicians all.

I'm leaning more towards seeing how this session of parliament turns out first - minorities can sometimes turn out better than majorities would. Let the blows cheap shots land where they may, and keep score of who's stepped on us less. When the next election rolls around, check the score card before you head to the polls.

(hmm... kind of cynical for an introductory post on the site, ah well   :-\)

 

[Armymedic]

Good post.

The Lib Gov't is truely democratic. It follows well what the (majority of) PEOPLE want.

 

[Armymedic]

Now here is what should be put forth to all the Canadian public...

Name: T. McDermott
Occupation: Naval Officer
Location: Halifax

This week's disaster in CHICOUTIMI has understandably left a country angry and confused. I too am angry, but my anger is not with the "navy brass", or the Defence Minister, or even the Government. My anger, my fury, and my disgust is directed at the Canadian general public. You have allowed the Government to neglect us. You love to jump on the band wagon when we suceed, but you are never really there when we need you. You allowed the Government to drag out the sea king replacement project for ten years. You allowed the Government to send soldiers to Afghanistan with 40 yr old Iltis. You allowed the Government to reduce the CF by 20,000 people and reduce it's budget by 25% while at the same time demanding the Government send in troops to Rwanda, Kosovo, Sudan, Afghanistan, and Zaire. You have demanded that troops be called out to fight forest fires, floods and clean up after hurricanes and shovel snow. If you want to know who to blame, just look in the mirror... it's YOUR FAULT


Bang on, Sir.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

That was actually posted?

 

[winchable]

Edited to delete Incorrect information.

 

[Scratch_043]

ArmyMedic, may I ask where you got that? I would like to forward it to a few people.

 

[jmacleod]

It appears to me at 75 years of age, having grown up in a military environment, and a family
with strong military links for decades in Canada, that, except for municipalities with direct links
to the Canadian Forces, the public is indeed apathetic - mostly based on ignorance, because
of the poor quality, for one thing, of Canadian history being taught in Canadian schools, in
Ontario and Quebec - although the other Provinces are probably just as mediocre. This in
turn reflects on the quality of the teachers. The history curriculum in high schools in Nova Scotia
is pathetic, when one considers the historic past of Nova Scotia, which damm near became a
state of the United States in the Revoluntionary War (Thomas Raddall "His Majesty's Yankees)
and the great presence of Halifax as the famous "East Coast Port" of Atlantic convoy fame
in both World Wars - indeed Amherst and Wolfe planned the conquest of French North America
in Halifax, their headquarters being the site of Jim O'Carroll's Bar and Grill, Lower Water Street.
How can this sad stuation, which has caused so many problems for the Canadian Forces be
resolved? MacLeod

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I think jmacleod that the funding for schools and their programs is as woefull as the military.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

They even read my post on TV, besides posting it!

Yes, ever since Trudeau, the Canadian Armed Forces have been in a steady decline. But are the politicians to blame? It seems to me that the politicians had the tactic approval of the majority of Canadians all along. Was there a hue and cry when the tanks were parked, or the HMCS Huron tied up, or half the CF-18's stripped for parts? Did the media and general population scream and gnash their teeth as units were disbanded, and personnel strength was cut again and again?

The Canadian people, it seems to me, care far more about health care, welfare, the lack of robins, the use of herbicides, well, you get the idea. If they care about anything, then the men and women in the Canadian Armed Forces are pretty darn low on their list of priorities.

The government knew that, and acted accordingly.

As much as the government is guilty, so are we all.

You guys can add your two cents worth as well: <a href=http://www.staging.canada.com/national/soundoff/view.html?id=3ed23c33-cbe3-4821-a4bc-5e6efc7734ba&soundoff=91011>HERE</a>

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

good for you lance

 

[NavyGrunt]

Im upset that 2.18% feel its isnt the governments fault..........

 

[Kirkhill]

http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2004/10/11/fCanada173.raw.html

These articles seem to fit here.   The first , despite the headline "Public bitter at Liberal cuts to Military" seems to bolster jmacleod's argument that only "military" communities get it and have a clue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22671-2004Oct10_2.html

The second one is titled "American Deserters Find a Mixed Reception in Canada"

These quotes got my attention.

Estimates of how many Americans came to Canada in those times to avoid service in the war range from 30,000 to 90,000. They were invited by the prime minister at the time, Pierre Trudeau, who in 1969 declared Canada to be "a refuge from militarism."

I always thought we just turned a blind eye to American Draft Dodgers.   I didn't realize that Trudeau, draft dodger that he himself was, made it government policy to offer safe haven to dodgers and effectively encourage Americans to desert and contributed to the undermining of the National will to pursue the war in Vietnam.   If true it is easy to understand why some American politicians, bureaucrats and soldiers are less than thrilled at us in general and at Trudeau and the Liberals in particular. Curiously the Washington Post is usually a Democrat/Canada friendly paper.

On taking office in 1977, President Jimmy Carter pardoned the draft dodgers and allowed deserters to apply for resolution of their cases. Many of the Americans went home. Others stayed in Canada, and many flourished. Today they include several judges, scores of university professors, a popular radio host, a music promoter, politicians and a film critic.

This quote suggests that:

A, a lot of our institutions are/were friendly to the attitudes and opinions of the Draft Dodgers
B, that a lot of the Draft Dodgers have infiltrated our institutions
C, that a lot of Draft Dodgers and their friends have put themselves in positions to influence public discourse and and attitudes, especially amongst the young, in Canada

Perhaps we can spin this to the Americans that the current anti-American attitudes of Canadians is due to a Fifth-Column of Americans that infiltrated our society and corrupted our youth not so much out of conviction but out of self-interest.   They did't want to risk getting the a** shot off but still wanted the jobs with the prestige and the big paychecks.

The reason we hate Americans is because Americans corrupted us and told us to hate Americans.   Do you think it would sell? ;D

 

[Armymedic]

That was a post in the National Posts Sound Off area/

 

[NavyGrunt]

http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2004/10/11/fCanada173.raw.html

These articles seem to fit here.   The first , despite the headline "Public bitter at Liberal cuts to Military" seems to bolster jmacleod's argument that only "military" communities get it and have a clue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22671-2004Oct10_2.html

The second one is titled "American Deserters Find a Mixed Reception in Canada"

These quotes got my attention.



I always thought we just turned a blind eye to American Draft Dodgers.   I didn't realize that Trudeau, draft dodger that he himself was, made it government policy to offer safe haven to dodgers and effectively encourage Americans to desert and contributed to the undermining of the National will to pursue the war in Vietnam.   If true it is easy to understand why some American politicians, bureaucrats and soldiers are less than thrilled at us in general and at Trudeau and the Liberals in particular. Curiously the Washington Post is usually a Democrat/Canada friendly paper.



This quote suggests that:

A, a lot of our institutions are/were friendly to the attitudes and opinions of the Draft Dodgers
B, that a lot of the Draft Dodgers have infiltrated our institutions
C, that a lot of Draft Dodgers and their friends have put themselves in positions to influence public discourse and and attitudes, especially amongst the young, in Canada

Perhaps we can spin this to the Americans that the current anti-American attitudes of Canadians is due to a Fifth-Column of Americans that infiltrated our society and corrupted our youth not so much out of conviction but out of self-interest.   They did't want to risk getting the a** shot off but still wanted the jobs with the prestige and the big paychecks.

The reason we hate Americans is because Americans corrupted us and told us to hate Americans.   Do you think it would sell? ;D

While you say that in jest their appears to be more than a little truth in it. IM not sure if a man who would let his friends and neighbours die while he runs away should be allowed into a position of authority....I think there maybe a character issue there.

 

[tabernac]

plus sending troops off to Afghanistan with bright green camouflage battle dress.

When we were in the Tora Bora's hunting Al Quida(can't remember the Op), the dusty CADPAT was a better blend with the foliage,(therefor harder to see) then the 3 color American BDUs. Any way, back on topic.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Perhaps they meant the whale.  I have heard the cadpat was way better at night as well.  The politician/public tend to pick up on the wrong problems facing the CF.

 

[canuck101]

politicians need to get reelected every four to five years and really don't have the time of day to care about what the CF needs in the future.  They will say what they have to, so as to get reelected.  For the military as we all know needs to plan 10 to 15 years in the future for purchases of equipment.  That is to long for your average MP to care, if he or she is lucky they will be in Parliament for one or two terms and out collecting their fully indexed pension.

I care very much but i guess i am from a lucky few.  My father servered for 38 years. Starting in the army reserves and when he was 17 he joined the navy then later changing to the air force for the most of his career.  My Aunt was also in the airforce for 25 years, my uncle served in the also army reserves.  My dad's father served in the second world wars along with family members from my mothers side of the family.  So i have always been very proud of my father and family.  I will always care about the sacrifices that my family and other families have made to keep this great county free. For me anyone who serves in the CF has chosen a higher calling, they have chosen a life protecting the country they love you can not ask them to care more.

The problem i see it is that most Canadians don't see enough military people in the daily lives, you only care for something if you can  see and hear about it.  If you only hear about it only when it needs new equipment then citizens get a warp view of the military.

 

[ramy]

Current Poll results

Has Ottawa failed to properly support the Canadian Forces?
97.78 %
Guilty
2.22 %
Not Guilty

I guess the numbers speak for themselves.