Correcting the continuing ignorance regarding the NDP (& shots on the Conservatives)

[fez]

Sounds good I'd like to hear from him, considering 3RCR had been running ranges for over two months, we've had a lot more than 5 rds per soldier. We've done C-7, C-6, Carl G, Grenades

I specifically exempted infantrymen. I said I was told you were limited to 5 bullets a year as the annual workup for other force members.   

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

I notice some of my so called errors are uncorrected by 8 posts so far..

And here I thought a line-by-line dissection would have sufficed.  I guess not.  Somehow that's typical of your ilk.  So, here we go again:

I get my info from a master bombardier with 10 years service in the forces. He left the forces for the marine corps and has kept in touch with his buds in the forces since and hes related that and many more instances of missing essentials and bad policy.

Was he regular or reserve?  Did he have a previous tour?  Has he been to Afghanistan?  MBdrs are typically not in a position to comment on "policy" - or at least shouldn't.  Again, the IED training standard is on my desk.

Isnt it true you are limited in the number of ammo clips to take into combat? Whereas us forces take as many as they can carry?

This is BS.  The Americans have a combat load, same as Canada.  It's a planning figure, and you'll see that our infantry carry much more than the by the book combat load.  Check photos on Combat Camera if you don't believe me.

The 5 bullet limit was for the yearly rifle tests I was told.  With only infantrymen allowed more.

Total crap.  Your "friend" has no idea what he's talking about and neither do you.

They have again no such limits in the US forces...

The US has training standards, just as we do, including limits on the number of rounds required for qualification.

The ied ref was told me this summer and he said his unit hadnt been properly trained in its workup to deployment and was in fact wasting time doing typical european theater training like crossing large rivers...

Oh, and your "friend" deployed to Afghanistan, which is how he's in a position to comment?  Again, see my comment on IED training.

Isnt it irrelevant about whether our small contingent is involved poppy eradication?

But our "small" contingent isn't involved in eradication.

Its the current US policy who are the bulk of the mission and when pashtun farmers are obviously supporting the taliban as a move against this anti opium program we can only question how well the overall mission will be.

And how do you know this?  You're extrapolating your opposition to eradication to support to the Taliban without empirical proof (Senlis Council doesn't count).  Back it up, or shut up.

Of course the NDP is the pacifist party.  But if you think socialists are all anti military you dont know jack, remember the warsaw pact? They were spending  far more of gdp on the military than the west ever did.

So why would we support them?  How do they support us if they're pacifist?  You're defeating your own argument.  As for your reference to the War Pac, you seem to be comparing the NDP to a totalitarian system bent on taking over the west by military means.  Taliban Jack = Stalin? 

If the ndp is not properly showcasing the failings of the afghan mission then you neednt worry with the 2 large mainstream parties and all their air time they can correct any errors. I find the ndp is a bit more on the money than you guys care to admit. No party wants to be caught in a gross error. I seriously think you need to see where the real errors lie.

Yup, and we've been pointing them out to you - you just don't want to listen.  Again, I'm hardly surprised.

As for those who think freedom of speech is a waste I think it best when my own family who served in 2 ww didnt fight for those who also thought the same. Your condescending BS attitudes wont get far with me.  I can salute the flag even with emoticons if I choose. Being in the NDP doesnt make one less of a canadian. But maybe being a bad canadian does.

So why are you here, posting on a site frequented by military personnel, trying to convince us of things we know aren't true?  Many here (myself included) have significant time in Afghanistan.  Do you think we're all dupes of the Neo-Cons?

I notice some of my so called errors are uncorrected by 8 posts so far... I wonder how much more bile vs "facts" Ill be presented with.

You've been presented with facts (see above).  You've just elected to ignore them.

Alberta and Canada has far lower royalty rates than Norway which charges 31%. This has nothing to do with transfer payments.  Tax cuts = program spending cuts and yes that will include bad choices and compromises for military spending. 

NDP economic policy - proven a failure many, many times (I'm from BC - don't get me started)...  :boring:

So here it is in a nutshell:  your "friends" are wrong and don't know what they're talking about.  You've come here to argue with soldiers and officers that have many years of experience in these matters, including substantial time in Afghanistan.  Yet you've chosen to ignore our views in a misguided attempt to "convince" us that the NDP supports the military - when the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

Why are you here?

 

[RangerRay]

Of all the days you choose to come here and spout this ideological bile...

If the NDP are friends of the military, then why does everyone in the military roll their eyes whenever a Dipper comments on defence matters?  Especially when it's Jack the Used Car Salesman or Dawn Black?  Or their friends at the Polaris Institute?

Your reference connecting national socialism with captialism is completely unfounded.  Although they did not control the means of production that regular socialists advocate, they still interfered to a great extent to the economy just like regular socialists.  National socialism has more in common with socialism just by their prediliction towards statist policies.

Since the Province of Alberta, the Province of British Columbia, the Province of Saskatchewan, etc., own their oil and gas resources, it is up to them how much they sell the royalties for, although for their sake, it should be fairly close to the market value of the resource.  If Alberta wants to sell at a discount, bully for them.

And please, lets tax the coporate sector and higher income brackets some more.  :  In case you haven't noticed, capital knows no boundaries.  When capital leaves, so do jobs, which means tax revenues drop.

I don't know where you got your "5 rounds" info from, but it's crap.  When I was in the militia during the dark days of Chretien, we had alot more than 5 rounds for range days!

As for your ingnorance on training and the situation in Afghanistan, I'll leave it to those who have served in theater to comment.

EDITED for spelling.

 

[McG]

I get my info from a master bombardier with 10 years service in the forces. He left the forces for the marine corps and has kept in touch with his buds in the forces since and hes related that and many more instances of missing essentials and bad policy.

Your friend is oblivious to his surroundings, lying, or fictitious (given that his identity changed between posts, I suspect the third option).

Isnt it true you are limited in the number of ammo clips to take into combat? Whereas us forces take as many as they can carry?

Untruths.

The 5 bullet limit was for the yearly rifle tests I was told.  With only infantrymen allowed more. They have again no such limits in the US forces...

and we don’t have these limits in the Canadian Forces (more bad information from your friend).

I specifically exempted infantrymen. I said I was told you were limited to 5 bullets a year as the annual workup for other force members.

Still wrong.

The ied ref was told me this summer and he said his unit hadnt been properly trained in its workup to deployment and was in fact wasting time doing typical european theater training like crossing large rivers.

What was his unit?  Did you know that my unit did have to deal with large rivers in Afghanistan?

Isnt it irrelevant about whether our small contingent is involved poppy eradication?

Is it?  You raised the subject.

Its the current US policy who are the bulk of the mission and when pashtun farmers are obviously supporting the taliban as a move against this anti opium program we can only question how well the overall mission will be.

The US is not the lead in Afghanistan and they are most certainly not the bulk of the force in Kandahar or the neighbouring provinces.  The democratically elected Afghan government is in charge of the country, and NATO is leading the international efforts.

I find the ndp is a bit more on the money than you guys care to admit.

. . . that is not saying much given that you seem to be oblivious to the reality on the ground in Afghanistan.

I seriously think you need to see where the real errors lie.

They exist in your information sources.

I notice some of my so called errors are uncorrected by 8 posts so far... I wonder how much more bile vs "facts" Ill be presented with.

Are you reading the article?

Do you watch the news?   We have been seeing and continue to see you guys with dark green armor vests (paint a target on them why dont ya!) on top of tan shirts on tv.

Do you not understand the concept of a first source?  I was there last winter/spring.  The armour is not green.

General reminder for all: Tone and Content on Army.ca

 

[fez]

Im here to get information just like pother politicians and reporters. I never claimed ot be all knowing. But that doesnt mean everything presented here is factual and not open to scrutiny. Such as the claim of tan armor vests when media is full of you guys wearing dark green ones.

We get concerned when we hear shit like you guys having to beg mri's from americans in bosnia back in the 90's. Or being forced to use compromised armor kits because of "shortages". We dont have to like each others politics. But can we avoid trying to BS each other off the site?

Ill re read your posts later tonight but other than some denials I dont see counter "facts" to all my points.

 

[Trinity]

Im here to get information just like pother politicians and reporters. I never claimed ot be all knowing. But that doesnt mean everything presented here is factual and not open to scrutiny. Such as the claim of tan armor vests when media is full of you guys wearing dark green ones.

Um... stock footage mean anything to you?  It's used all the time.

 

[Pte_Martin]

Im here to get information just like pother politicians and reporters. I never claimed ot be all knowing. But that doesnt mean everything presented here is factual and not open to scrutiny. Such as the claim of tan armor vests when media is full of you guys wearing dark green ones.

We get concerned when we hear crap like you guys having to beg mri's from americans in bosnia back in the 90's. Or being forced to use compromised armor kits because of "shortages". We dont have to like each others politics. But can we avoid trying to BS each other off the site?

Ill re read your posts later tonight but other than some denials I dont see counter "facts" to all my points.

Wow this guy doesn't get it, He's here to get info.. everyone here has been telling him the "info" and he doesn't believe it, even if it's from people that have been to Afghanistan. And he's still saying that all the other posters replys are just B/S and not Facts I'd like to see what makes him know so much more than the guys that have already been overseas.

 

[fez]

I guess its pointless to reference you to Gwynn Dyer or other military analysts. I guess he's just another lefty malcontent eh? But obviously when I hear you say all members of the forces roll their eyes when hearing an ndper I know the kind of ideological nonsense can also flow from your own perspective.  

 

[fez]

Um... stock footage mean anything to you?  It's used all the time.

How old is that "stock footage"? You saying you didnt spend years in afghanistan with greeen vests. Heck green shirts? How about telling me when you got the full set of both tan clothes and armor vest?

 

[Trinity]

Ill re read your posts later tonight but other than some denials I dont see counter "facts" to all my points.

See... what scares me is it seems you consider your opinion as fact.
But the first hand opinion of those over there aren't facts according to you... it's just denial.


There have been plenty of counters to your argument... especially to the drivel of
5 rounds and ied training.. but you fail to acknowledge this and try to deflect the
fact you were proved wrong by attacking something else.

 

[fez]

Oh yeah Im "hiding" all right. You have my email. What do you want my steet address? It sad to see there isnt a varied slate of opinion here. I guess you  scared off other 'lefties'. To your detriment. If this is to be the paramount canadian military website you better start allowing other views in here. Canada is not a right wing country. Hasnt been for a long time. I wouldnt want the next election see any kind of alienation of concern for the canadian forces just because some right wing malcontents took over a website.

My old army friend hopefully should be on later tonight.  Maybe we can then clear the air a bit more. I get the feeling however not all army units are run or treated the same.

 

[Trinity]

How old is that "stock footage"? You saying you didnt spend years in afghanistan with greeen vests. Heck green shirts? How about telling me when you got the full set of both tan clothes and armor vest?

Good question. 

I saw 105's being used as stock footage the other day when they were talking about the sandbox when
we had been using 155's for how long now???  A good while. The point is the media isn't interested
in getting footage correctly or even current if its just a quick blip for a story.  They use what they have
on hand.

  I never said we didn't spend year with green vests did I?  No.. I said stock footage, but thanks for proving
my point and trying to deflect the issue by putting words in my mouth.

I believe you commented on our boys being over there presently with wrong camo.... we stated
they aren't.  I'm sure someone can pull up recent pictures from combat camera to prove the point
if having members who just came back tell you so isn't enough proof.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Ill re read your posts later tonight but other than some denials I dont see counter "facts" to all my points.

Frankly, I'm at a loss as to what you want...  Do you want the entire shooting programme for MLOC/DLOC published?  We could do that.  Photos of ourselves carrying the equipment you so casually dismiss?

So, smart guy, here's a photo of me wearing a CADPAT AR flak vest.  Good enough?

For the rest of you - yeah, I know, no tac vest/helmet.  You had to have been there...

 

[spud]

Oh yeah Im "hiding" all right. You have my email. What do you want my steet address?

Good grief man I don't want your street address, I don'twant anybody's address on this board. Unless they have cold Alpine.

Perhaps just more of an explantion of what your true motives are in coming here, on who you'll give your information to, what's it going to be used for, etc?

If you haven't noticed, this a pretty important day for the vast majority of people on this board. And are we proctective of our own, especially when it comes to your dis-information...damn straight.

Edited:  On this important day I'm not wasting one more second reading this thread. However annoying, I'm ignoring the "FEZ troll".

potato

 

[fez]

Frankly, I'm at a loss as to what you want...  Do you want the entire shooting programme for MLOC/DLOC published?  We could do that.  Photos of ourselves carrying the equipment you so casually dismiss?

So, smart guy, here's a photo of me wearing a CADPAT AR flak vest.  Good enough?

For the rest of you - yeah, I know, no tac vest/helmet.  You had to have been there...

NO not really good enough. When did they start replacing the green vest with tan ones? Im not asking for a full accounting.  Im just wondering how many years it took to get what shouldve been done at the outset.  

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Ok, the photo was taken in late 2004, so we've had the equipment for at least two years.

We first deployed to Afghanistan in February 2002, when we did not have AR CADPAT.  It was procured when we reengaged in Afghanistan in 2003 with the deployment to ISAF.  No tour since has been without desert uniforms.

 

[fez]

Good grief man I don't want your street address, I don'twant anybody's address on this board. Unless they have cold Alpine.

Perhaps just more of an explantion of what your true motives are in coming here, on who you'll give your information to, what's it going to be used for, etc?

If you haven't noticed, this a pretty important day for the vast majority of people on this board. And are we proctective of our own, especially when it comes to your dis-information...damn straight.

potato

Lets see how many posts does it take to say im an NDPer who ran for public office and is also a strong supporter of the military (my first post)  if not the right wing views of some of its members. What other info do you need. What are you so afraid of that you need to hunt me down  like a rabid dog fo asking some simple questions.    

 

[warspite]

As for those who think freedom of speech is a waste I think it best when my own family who served in 2 ww didnt fight for those who also thought the same. Your condescending BS attitudes wont get far with me.  I can salute the flag even with emoticons if I choose. Being in the NDP doesnt make one less of a canadian. But maybe being a bad canadian does.  

So are you implying that those who don't agree with you are bad Canadian's.....?

Teddy Ruxpin  

And as for you fez..... my impression so far is that you are calling many on this site closed minded because they don't agree with your beliefs....

Hypocrisy- The claim, pretense, or false representation of holding beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not actually possess.

 

[Pte_Martin]

OK so we gave you what you wanted and proved that we have CADPAT AR, and that's still not good enough for you. You do know that when  you try to order over 2,000 pieces of kit it does take a little bit to make and send to Afghanistan. or does it just magically appear

 

[fez]

Ok, the photo was taken in late 2004, so we've had the equipment for at least two years.

We first deployed to Afghanistan in February 2002, when we did not have AR CADPAT.  It was procured when we reengaged in Afghanistan in 2003 with the deployment to ISAF.  No tour since has been without desert uniforms.

So your telling me youve ALL had tan armor vests for over 2 years while all news networks in this country still showed you (or some of you) with green vests? Ive watched everything from global to ctv to cbc... It begs to wonder why they would refuse to show you guys with tan vets after all this time.