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Conrad Black off to visit his Enron buddies at the crow bar hilton.

Thirstyson said:
Reading his biography, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_Black (yes, I know it's Wikipedia) Conrad Black done some pretty horrible things throughout his life.

Why are so many people here sticking up for him? It can't just be because of the charges, they aren't completely warrantless.

His biographies of Roosevelt and Nixon - in two parts, make up for a lot of "horrible things."

I hold no brief for Black the businessman or Black the Lord but Black the biographer is a credit to his countries.  People will be reading his books long after they've forgotten that he was locked up for some reason or another.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
His biographies of Roosevelt and Nixon - in two parts, make up for a lot of "horrible things."

I hold no brief for Black the businessman or Black the Lord but Black the biographer is a credit to his countries.  People will be reading his books long after they've forgotten that he was locked up for some reason or another.

Well there you are; first time I've seen someone other than his newspapers write something nice about him. thanks
 
Thirstyson said:
Reading his biography, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_Black (yes, I know it's Wikipedia) Conrad Black done some pretty horrible things throughout his life.

Please define horrible?? As compared to people like Robert Mugabe?? Fidel Castro?? Chavez??
 
Could anyone let me kmow if he try to enter Canada, and he's turn back?

Don't want to miss a happy dance :).
 
>Conrad Black done some pretty horrible things throughout his life.

Do you mean "horrible" as in wasting billions of dollars of the public (taxpayers') trust, "horrible" as in crimes of physical violence, or "horrible" as in exploiting financial laws as written?  I don't think much of Black's personality but if living large and arrogant is a crime then much of the first tier entertainment and political communities should be locked up.
 
Quote from: WarmAndVertical on July 15, 2007, 16:25:06
.....this from someone who hasn't likely done a speck of physical labour for himself in his lifetime.  cut and dried.


So Conrad Black inherited all this wealth?

No, he dug ditches to make it to the top.

It's all about Scheudenfruede and if Conrad wants me to stop gloating, it'll only cost him $1000 and I'll stop.  I'll be poor and happy while he's in jail and , just maybe, I'll get a crack at Barbara!
 
WarmAndVertical said:
So Conrad Black inherited all this wealth?

No, he dug ditches to make it to the top.

Neither. He inherited a good pile of moolah, and contine growing it...

 
Neither. He inherited a good pile of moolah, and contine growing it...


I know...I was trying for dripping sarcasm but it was at the end of a good Happy Hour so......

Yes, he was a son of a wealthy owner of Canadian Brewers (never a bad trade in this country!)  and , aside from the normal wealth that that would imply, he purchased a Sherbrooke paper and started his empire from there. He had access to Argus though his family and likely  (like GW Bush) had no difficulty getting all the investment money he wanted.
But, he is not a rags to riches story and he has a patrician manner that rubs many the wrong way....not right but, it is what it is.
 
It does seem rather bizzare that :

a. Conrad Black faced potentially more time in prison than many violent offenders, and,
b. he is attracting far more vitrol from people who were not affected by his actions real or alleged

I didn't see Hollinger as any part of my mutual fund holdings, but I suspect that if they were part of the portfolio, I would have been very cranked in the post Black period, when the new owners proceeded to destroy the accumulated value of the company, and during the legal proceedings when the remaining value was consumed by lawyers and "investigators".

While Lord Black may or may not hav been able to stop the iitial slide in value, it is a fact that he is the person mostly responsible for creating the value of the Hollinger brand in the first place, so it is only logical the new owners would not be eager for him to set up rival mewspapers or media properties after he sold out (hence the no competes). The shareholders certainly came out second best under the new owners, and my sympathies are to them.
 
Lord Black finally goes to prison pending his appeal:

http://torydrroy.blogspot.com/2008/03/schadenfreude-2.html

Proud, stubborn, flawed, brave and unbowed
CHRISTIE BLATCHFORD
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
E-mail Christie Blatchford | Read Bio | Latest Columns
March 4, 2008 at 3:50 AM EST

Some of my colleagues and friends have been down in Florida for a few days now, there to watch Conrad Black arrive at the Coleman Federal Correction Complex south of Orlando to begin serving his six-and-a-half-year sentence.

For any member of the profession that regularly travels the world on other people's money, it was an almost irresistible boondoggle, the chance to leave the wretched Canadian winter for a few days and soak up some sun while also witnessing the denouement of this man's most incredible downfall. I didn't even make a pitch to join Paul Waldie, The Globe and Mail's stellar reporter who has documented this whole story from start to finish with such even-handedness. I didn't have the heart for any of it.

Lord Black, of course, reported in at what the great defence lawyer Austin Cooper calls "the hoosegow" with the style to which in this country we have long been accustomed.

Yesterday, the very day of his surrender, Lord Black published a long piece in the National Post, the newspaper he founded, in which he stuck to his view of the prosecution against him ("the most comprehensive international defamation I can recall"), proclaimed his innocence ("I believe in the confession and repentance of misconduct, as well as in the punishment of crimes. If I had committed any of the offences charged, I would have pleaded guilty and asked for a sentence that would enable me to atone for my crime and assuage my guilt and shame.") and suggested his convictions for fraud and obstruction of justice were improper (in e-mails and in television interviews his jurors, he said, have "confirmed that there remained a reasonable doubt, but that a compromise was reached on acquittals and convictions, contrary to the judge's instruction.")

In various interviews over the weekend, including one with Mr. Waldie, Lord Black pronounced himself unafraid, optimistic that the appeal of those convictions, likely to be heard in June, will succeed, and predicted that his accusers' sense of triumph will be fleeting.
It is this very sort of thing - his insistence on being right, the haughty wordiness and steadfast refusal to play by anyone's rules or standards but his own - that drives his detractors, and in Canada their number is legion, absolutely nuts.

That's part of the glee that I think many felt at his arrest, trial and perceived comeuppance; well, actually, I know there are many who feel like that because every time I have written about him, I've heard from these folks.

On the last occasion, just before Christmas, I said that Lord Black reminded me of Robert Latimer, the Saskatchewan farmer who in 1993 killed his disabled daughter and had just been denied a chance at day parole - that decision recently has been overturned to much cheering in the country - in that both men believe absolutely that they did nothing wrong and indeed that they had the right to do what they did.

To my astonishment, a good number of my letter-writers believed I had libelled not Lord Black (by comparing him with a daughter-killer, even just in this narrow aspect of character), but rather Mr. Latimer. Such is the depth of feeling there is in the land for Lord Black.
The other part of it, though, I believe has to do with what a friend of mine calls the pettiness that conspires to make our huge nation small.

He was making the point about the interdepartmental rivalries between the military and diplomats on the Afghanistan mission, particularly as they manifested themselves in a quiet little fight over the Strategic Advisory Team.

The SAT, as it's called, is a small, Kabul-based team of high-level military planners, and a few civilians, who are embedded in a few areas of the fragile Afghanistan government in what could be loosely called a capacity-building effort with the fledgling Afghan civil service.
Recently, the SAT was under threat from Canadian diplomats who, while completely unable to staff a small funeral cortege let alone fill those SAT positions with capable members from their own ranks, nonetheless regard capacity-building as their shtick and resented the access to Afghans that these mere soldiers had earned, and so were bent on scuttling the team.

It was in this context my friend wrote, "Canadian values of humility and assistance, which are emblematic of the SAT team, might very well be sacrificed on the altar of vanity, envy and perceived competition. It is no wonder that our allies sometimes raise an eyebrow with respect to Canada. It is equally wondrous that we permit such rivalries to make a great nation small."

So it is also with Lord Black, I think.

In this country, we like our larger-than-life figures (especially if they are rich and powerful) to be modest, on the quiet side, to have dull and equally quiet spouses and preferably to make nice with us regular types. Lord Black is hardly cut from that cloth. He went quietly into no night, a trait exemplified by his fight with the then-sitting prime minister, Jean Chrétien, over his British peerage, best described as a classic pissing match.

In that shemozzle, there was no one smaller-minded than Mr. Chrétien, who used the little-known Nickle Resolution of 1919 (whereby the Canadian Parliament determined the Queen shouldn't confer such honours on Canadians) to deny the man whose newspaper had been such a thorn in his side. But the fellow who lost in the all-important court of public opinion (as well as in the Ontario Court of Appeal) wasn't the self-styled little guy from Shawinigan but the brash press baron, who gave up his Canadian citizenship in order to accept the peerage, a decision that came back to bite him in the rear when he was convicted in Chicago last summer and found himself unable to seek a transfer to a kindlier Canadian prison.

All of which is to say, I think the reason I didn't want to go to Coleman was because I didn't relish the prospect of seeing Lord Black, my former employer at the Post, being humiliated. Silly me: What could I have been thinking? He wasn't humiliated. He was proud, stubborn, flawed, brave and unbowed. Good for him.

I hope he starts up a little paper in the joint.
 
"The essence of life is imperfection."  - TCBF

;D

- I very much admire Mr Black.  He greatest tactical failing is that he does not suffer fools gladly, which puts him at odds with half of Canada's business establishment, most of our political players, and all of our self absorbed pseudo-intellectual elite who lack the nuts to go into business or politics.
 
I very much admire Mr Black.  He greatest tactical failing is that he does not suffer fools gladly, which puts him at odds with half of Canada's business establishment, most of our political players, and all of our self absorbed pseudo-intellectual elite who lack the nuts to go into business or politics.

Tell that to the folks at Enron who lost there pensions and life savings to greedy white collar criminals, who thought they had gotten away with it. Jokes on them and who's laughing now.

He was caught red handed with his hand in the cookie jar, but he had money to hire the best defence in the US and Canada and got off relatively light.

Mr. Black thinks he's above the law, he's arrogant, self righteous and indignant. He may be business savvy and relentless when it come to this business dealings, but that doesn't put him above the law and when he breaks it, he pays the piper just like the rest of us.

Some have said, well he never killed anyone, well sometimes stealing everything a person has worked for throughout their lives, like what happeneded at Enron, is sometimes worse than death, and with what these people now have to contend with, bankruptcy's, foreclosures on their homes etc, they may sometimes wish they had died. In Blacks case it was the shareholders he stole from, but theft is theft, no matter who you steal from. All because a few people at the top became greedy and wanted everything.

Conrad Black doesn't need our sympathy, he needs to realize that he just can't walk over people like they were discarded trash on the side of the street, just because one has money and now he's got six years to think about it.
 
retiredgrunt45 said:
Greed finally got the Best of Lord Conrad Black and now he'll be paying golf with his Enron buddies in his new wardrobe "stripped pajamas" at the crow bar Hilton resort. He would look good in stripes anyway and kudos to the jury, made up of average honest hard working people, who found the ******* guilty. I wonder if he'll have to give up his lordship title... As to his appeal, it may take... oh 20 years or so to see the light of day. Chalk one up for the little guys!!

- Chalk one up for a jury of semi - literate peasants unfit for the laundry room, let alone the courtroom.
 
TCBF said:
- Chalk one up for a jury of semi - literate peasants unfit for the laundry room, let alone the courtroom.

Interesting statement. You're not related in any way to his Lordship are you? I realize that the jury members were from the wrong class (contemptible riffraff, all them!) but trial by your peers is the way things work in a democracy.

At any rate, I suspect that even if the jury had been made up of members from the House of Lords, Black would still have been found guilty.  :crybaby:
 
retiredgrunt45 said:
Tell that to the folks at Enron who lost there pensions and life savings to greedy white collar criminals, who thought they had gotten away with it. Jokes on them and who's laughing now.

- Conrad Black is not ENRON.  Hollinger was MAKING money until the anti-Conrad faction took control of it and destroyed it trying to destroy Conrad Black.  He left it in better shape than his replacements did - who is jailing THEM?

- I don't mind the jailing of greedy white collar criminals, providing they do less time than greedy foreign terrorist fund raisers, greedy politicians, greedy drug pushers, etc.
 
I'm rather curious as to the cause of your vitrol at Lord Black RG45? Did you own Hollinger stock? If you did, you must be aware that it lost the bulk of its value after Lord Black left the company. Further investigation would show the bulk of the assets were consumed by lawyers and government "investigators" in the hunt to get Lord Black after the new management had  gutted the company and needed to look for scapegoats. Comparisons with ENRON or Worldcom are pointless, the managements of those companies burned their bridges their own ways.

What has never been demonstrated (and indeed the jury dismissed) were any criminal wrongdoings by Lord Black. If I were to make a wager, I'd even bet Lord Black will win his appeals, and the only reason to send him to prison has more to do with vengeful US authorities who have spent so much time and money justifying their bungled case.

As for Lord Black himself, I have never met the man so leave his personality to those who did work with and for him. His writing style is quite brilliant and I look forward to finishing his biography of FDR and eventually reading his work on Nixon, but this really only tells me of his skills as a historian and writer.
 
TCBF said:
- Conrad Black is not ENRON.  Hollinger was MAKING money until the anti-Conrad faction took control of it and destroyed it trying to destroy Conrad Black.  He left it in better shape than his replacements did - who is jailing THEM?

- I don't mind the jailing of greedy white collar criminals, providing they do less time than greedy foreign terrorist fund raisers, greedy politicians, greedy drug pushers, etc.

Yes, making money, but for who? The management of company has one primary responsibility and that is to the company's shareholders. Black did not seem to grasp this, or he simply didn't care.

In 2004, a class-action suit was launched against Black on behalf of the shareholders of Hollinger (<a href="http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1094647677239_71"> Link </a>).
To quote from the article:

          "In the suit's 110-page statement of claim, Black is accused of pillaging company coffers to finance his lavish lifestyle.

          'Lord Black and his acolytes surreptitiously pocketed millions of dollars generated from sales of Hollinger assets -- money
            that belonged to Hollinger -- without disclosure to the shareholders,' the court documents say."

Black had no regard for the "little people" who may have been hurt when their pension funds mysteriously shrank nor did he seem to care about the board of directors who were the ones who discovered his well, let's just call it his "misconduct".

Not bad for a guy who started his business career by getting expelled from Upper Canada College for selling exams to his fellow students (I know, I know, business is business  ;) ) <a href="http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20070312_103141_103141&source=srch">Link</a>
 
I'm rather curious as to the cause of your vitrol at Lord Black RG45? Did you own Hollinger stock? If you did, you must be aware that it lost the bulk of its value after Lord Black left the company. Further investigation would show the bulk of the assets were consumed by lawyers and government "investigators" in the hunt to get Lord Black after the new management had  gutted the company and needed to look for scapegoats. Comparisons with ENRON or Worldcom are pointless, the managements of those companies burned their bridges their own ways.

No Black isn't Enron in name only, but he was doing the same damn thing Enron exec's were doing, syphoning of funds to support his lavish lifestyle. And no I didn't have stock in his companies, glad i didn't either.

My opinion of Black is the same of every other high level exec who steals from his own people for their own greedy purposes and I stick by it, Do the crime do the time. I still think he's and arrogant a**hole who thinks he can get away with anything.

Seems some people put him on a pedestal, I'm not one of them. If you want to worship him or if you feel that he's done no wrong, that's your business.
 
Chalk one up for a jury of semi - literate peasants unfit for the laundry room, let alone the courtroom.

What, you don't think that we low life pheasants can't tell the difference between right and wrong or are you in some way to high and mighty to stoop to our level.

Are you related to the Lordship? Must be because you seem to have the same arrogant attitude towards the little guy's, must run in the family.
 
Sorry just have to reply to your post.

... but he had money to hire the best defence in the US and Canada and got off relatively light.
So what, defending yourself is a crime?

  Mr. Black thinks he's above the law, 
Again, since when was believing in your innocence and the willingness to go head-to-head with the prosecution a crime? Lets face it, when the Hollinger empire started crumbling Mr. Black had the chance to sell off all of his assets, clean out his bank accounts and hightail it to some Caribbean island and spend the rest of his life in the sunshine. Heck, he could have even moved back to Europe and enjoyed the good life because the chances that any European country would extradite him on the US criminal charges would have been pretty slim.

But no, he decided to stick around and fight the charges because he thought he was innocent.

... he's arrogant, self righteous and indignant. 
And you've known him for how long? 

  Some have said, well he never killed anyone, well sometimes stealing everything a person has worked for throughout their lives, like what happeneded at Enron, is sometimes worse than death, and with what these people now have to contend with, bankruptcy's, foreclosures on their homes etc, they may sometimes wish they had died.
While I have followed the Conrad Black case on an on/off basis, I'm no expert on ENRON so I can't comment on comparisons between ENRON and  the Hollinger/Black cases. However, if, as you state that Black was guilty of defrauding people of their homes/life savings why wasn't he charged with the crimes? Let's face it, if the US prosecutors had evidence that Black had cheated some little old lady out of her life savings don't you thin they would have charged him with it?  [/quote] 
 
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