CFRG and the broken recruiting system-Split

[McG]

Post a ql5 med tech at the recruiting center. they can administer the tests and send them up to be reviewed by a PA or doctor.

From where do we rob the positions and qualified Med Techs?

 

[DAA]

1.  Criminal Record Checks take time.  What may be done for one prospect in a month, may take another several months or years.  You do not hear the prospects who breezed through the Criminal Record Checks in a matter of days complaining.
2.  CFAT has to be booked when the facilities, equipment, and a capable operator are available to administer it.
3.  Medicals are booked when medical personnel are available to administer interviews and testing.  Gone are the days when you can be accepted with "one eye, one lung and one kidney". 

1.  3-4 day turn around time.  Unless the applicant has "foreign implications" but then we talking about maybe 10% of applicants subject to the long term and this is a top end guess.....  The what happens when an applicants process takes longer than expected and the criminal record check expires, make them pay again?
2.  Already done on computer.  But there is alot of paperwork after the fact.  Remember, these tests and scores, are controlled and must be accounted for, even when done on computer.
3.  Sounds simple, but what do you do about people who receive the test in the afternoon?  If you say, just CFAT in the morning, then you are further limiting your CFAT testing and then what are the Med Techs doing in the morning when applicants are writing the CFAT?  You can't keep telling applicants come back tomorrow.....come back tomorrow.

Reserve Force Recruiting, is a whole different issue.  As far as I understand it, CFRC's core business is Regular Force Recruiting not Reserve Force Recruiting.  So maybe another question to be asked, is what are the 100+ Army Reserve Force Class B Recruiters recently hired currently doing to resolve this problem?

 

[TCM621]

From where do we rob the positions and qualified Med Techs?

Create the positions. Use class B to replace med techs until numbers raise. Now, I can't find how many recruiting centers we have off hand, so it is possible that I am vastly underestimating the required but it can't be a huge number. Certainly, it could be filled in a few years due to the greater efficiency of the recruiting system.
You could even start small with only major centers like van, tor, mtl, etc.

 

[TCM621]

Reserve Force Recruiting, is a whole different issue.  As far as I understand it, CFRC's core business is Regular Force Recruiting not Reserve Force Recruiting.  So maybe another question to be asked, is what are the 100+ Army Reserve Force Class B Recruiters recently hired currently doing to resolve this problem?

When I was RSS at a reserve unit, I spent a lot if time on this issue. All the reserve recruiters can do is assist in getting the application completed. The application is then sent to CFRC, where they handle the rest. In victoria, the hand one guy who did reserve files and when all the class B got cut he wasn't even full time. All the army units on the Island had 2 or 3 times our allotment of recruits waiting yet but it wasn't uncommon to have unfilled positions come year end.

 

[DAA]

When I was RSS at a reserve unit, I spent a lot if time on this issue. All the reserve recruiters can do is assist in getting the application completed. The application is then sent to CFRC, where they handle the rest. In victoria, the hand one guy who did reserve files and when all the class B got cut he wasn't even full time. All the army units on the Island had 2 or 3 times our allotment of recruits waiting yet but it wasn't uncommon to have unfilled positions come year end.

So when it comes to Reserve Force Recruiting, the question best asked is "Why are our files not being given due consideration and processed in a timely manner to assist in meeting our quotas?"

In which case, the response will most likely be "The core mandate of CF Recruiting is for the Regular Force not the Reserves."

You can't win this one, unless the Army wants to throw more money at it......

PS - in case you haven't noticed, the CF just went through through the PRECS (Primary Reserve Employment Capacity Study/Survey) which took away probably 140-160+ Class B posns out of Recruiting, if not more.  Good luck getting those back.

 

[McG]

Create the positions. Use class B to replace med techs until numbers raise.

The size of the CAF is externally constrained.  You cannot just create a position; it must come from somewhere.
So, what do you cut to have a Med Tech to hang-out in every CFRC?

 

[George Wallace]

So when it comes to Reserve Force Recruiting, the question best asked is "Why are our files not being given due consideration and processed in a timely manner to assist in meeting our quotas?"

In which case, the response will most likely be "The core mandate of CF Recruiting is for the Regular Force not the Reserves."

You can't win this one, unless the Army wants to throw more money at it......

PS - in case you haven't noticed, the CF just went through through the PRECS (Primary Reserve Employment Capacity Study/Survey) which took away probably 140-160+ Class B posns out of Recruiting, if not more.  Good luck getting those back.

It has only been in the last decade or so that the "Unification" in Recruiting took place.  Prior to that, Primary Reserve units did their own recruiting, processing and enrolling of prospects.  Then in someone's wisdom, all recruiting was to be passed through the CFRG and CFRCs.  This was no doubt a "good idea faerie's" suggestion to save monies and control all recruiting and processing.  We now see the results.

 

[Journeyman]

In which case, the response will most likely be "The core mandate of CF Recruiting is for the Regular Force not the Reserves."

Maybe the Recruiters just need the right motivation.  I was RSS in a large, ugly city and parking was $$.  We provided the CFRC people free parking access at our Armouries, near their office.  They were generally quite prompt in actioning our applicants.  >


I know, I know....."extortion"  "bribing people to do their job"  :dunno:

 

[Jarnhamar]

Removed a lack luster story :0

 

[dapaterson]

So when it comes to Reserve Force Recruiting, the question best asked is "Why are our files not being given due consideration and processed in a timely manner to assist in meeting our quotas?"

In which case, the response will most likely be "The core mandate of CF Recruiting is for the Regular Force not the Reserves."

You can't win this one, unless the Army wants to throw more money at it......

PS - in case you haven't noticed, the CF just went through through the PRECS (Primary Reserve Employment Capacity Study/Survey) which took away probably 140-160+ Class B posns out of Recruiting, if not more.  Good luck getting those back.

Hmm...  They are called the CANADIAN FORCES Recruiting Group, not the REGULAR FORCE Recruiting Group.  Seems some staff are incapable of basic comprehension.  And one role of the Reg F is to support the Reserves.

Simple solution to this conundrum is to close all the CFRCs, move the people and functions into the Reserve armouries across the country, and to impose performance standards.  Plus, were I king for the day, I'd put the Recruit school under CFRG as well - so that one General is accountable for ensuring that the folks he recruits graduate training - if personnel production falters, there's one person to hold accountable.  Right now, with CFRCs and CFLRS under different organizations, that accountability is more difficult.

Another, more realistic way to address some problems would be to set up a simple website to track progress.  Just a series of checkmarks that Bloggins can look at - has all his paperwork been submitted?  If not, he'll know and can take action.  What further steps are there - not in detail, to reduce risk of loss of personal data, but generic things so Bloggins knows where things stand.

 

[DAA]

It has only been in the last decade or so that the "Unification" in Recruiting took place.  Prior to that, Primary Reserve units did their own recruiting, processing and enrolling of prospects.  Then in someone's wisdom, all recruiting was to be passed through the CFRG and CFRCs.  This was no doubt a "good idea faerie's" suggestion to save monies and control all recruiting and processing.  We now see the results.

Nope.  PRes still do their own Recruiting, including attractions, processing (to a certain extent) and also enrolments , hence the Army adding Full Time Class B PRes Recruiters to do that job.  CFRG and CFRC's never ever took over the process, they merely provide "spare/specialized" capacity, nothing more and then turn the files right back over to the Bde/PRes Unit.  At one time, it was proposed that CFRG take over "Army" PRes recruiting but that came with a PY cost, that the Army wasn't prepared to provide, so it was squashed.

 

[MilEME09]

Hmm...  They are called the CANADIAN FORCES Recruiting Group, not the REGULAR FORCE Recruiting Group.  Seems some staff are incapable of basic comprehension.  And one role of the Reg F is to support the Reserves.

Simple solution to this conundrum is to close all the CFRCs, move the people and functions into the Reserve armouries across the country, and to impose performance standards.  Plus, were I king for the day, I'd put the Recruit school under CFRG as well - so that one General is accountable for ensuring that the folks he recruits graduate training - if personnel production falters, there's one person to hold accountable.  Right now, with CFRCs and CFLRS under different organizations, that accountability is more difficult.

Another, more realistic way to address some problems would be to set up a simple website to track progress.  Just a series of checkmarks that Bloggins can look at - has all his paperwork been submitted?  If not, he'll know and can take action.  What further steps are there - not in detail, to reduce risk of loss of personal data, but generic things so Bloggins knows where things stand.

One problem that has come to my units attention is that the majority of recruiters where I am only knew about the reg force and couldn't provide information as to how the Reserves work and how training went.

 

[DAA]

Hmm...  They are called the CANADIAN FORCES Recruiting Group, not the REGULAR FORCE Recruiting Group.  Seems some staff are incapable of basic comprehension.  And one role of the Reg F is to support the Reserves.

Simple solution to this conundrum is to close all the CFRCs, move the people and functions into the Reserve armouries across the country, and to impose performance standards.  Plus, were I king for the day, I'd put the Recruit school under CFRG as well - so that one General is accountable for ensuring that the folks he recruits graduate training - if personnel production falters, there's one person to hold accountable.  Right now, with CFRCs and CFLRS under different organizations, that accountability is more difficult.

Another, more realistic way to address some problems would be to set up a simple website to track progress.  Just a series of checkmarks that Bloggins can look at - has all his paperwork been submitted?  If not, he'll know and can take action.  What further steps are there - not in detail, to reduce risk of loss of personal data, but generic things so Bloggins knows where things stand.

Yes, they are called that.  But what you are forgetting, is that our Reserve Forces, do NOT fall under the same umbrella and are "environmentally" managed.  You have the Army Reserve, Air Reserve, Naval Reserve, Health Care Reserve and CIC/COATS.

CAF Recruiting was never meant to attract people into the "reserves" but rather the "Regular Force".  That's what it is all about, filling the Regular Force ranks.  Along the way, came "piggy backing" so to speak but nothing official.

Last I checked, Recruiting (CFRG and it's CFRC's) and the the Recruit School were under the same Command, which is CMP.

They are able to track progress, it's called CFRIMS.  But like any software, it's susceptible to the "GIGO" factor.

The tools are there.......

 

[Journeyman]

Well, another short-cut solution is to appoint the site owner as Director of Online Recruiting. 

For all the whiney, crippled, illiterate, drug-addled, not-remotely-medically-fit, excuse-laden people we have posting here, who always draw the response "go see a Recruiter" (because, let's face it, we're all too polite to say "you haven't a freakin' chance in hell!!").....give Mike the authority to reject these people from the system before they can waste the Recruiters' time.

:nod:

.....in exchange for some CFRG subscription money.  ;D


Hell, even I may spend some time amongst the lepers wannabees      >

 

[DAA]

Well, another short-cut solution is to appoint the site owner as Director of Online Recruiting. 

For all the whiney, crippled, illiterate, drug-addled, not-remotely-medically-fit, excuse-laden people we have posting here, who always draw the response "go see a Recruiter" (because, let's face it, we're all too polite to say "you haven't a freakin' chance in hell!!").....give Mike the authority to reject these people from the system before they can waste the Recruiters' time.

.....in exchange for some CFRG subscription money.  ;D

Hell, even I may spend some time amongst the lepers wannabees      >

I second that!

But I believe that it needs some sort of "official" presence, which probably requires higher level approvals of some sort or hoops to jump through that are near impossible.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if you see the forces.ca website disappear shortly as a result of the GoC and TBS imposed "common look and feel" approach.

 

[Phoenix80]

Using your vast experience in the CF recruiting system no doubt? Please go ahead and detail all those unnecessary reasons you emailed her about, so that when they show up in a news article we know where the misinformation came from.

So basically 1-2 yrs of wait time to go through the recruiting process is okay with you then?
Well since it is not your life/time that gets wasted I can see how you may not be able to understand my point of view.
I have a friend (born in Canada of British parents) who had to wait for more than 2+ years for 'her' background/reliability checks to be completed. That's a waste of time. I am told the reason is lack of staff who do the checks. There are a handful of them in Canada.
Wasting peoples' time/energy/life should be unacceptable. And this is the same process I have embarked upon and I am worried it is going to take years for me too. It'd be great if you could put yourself in my shoes for a moment ((guessing you know nothing about me)) and see how that eventual wait time can be very stressful and unproductive.

thx

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So basically 1-2 yrs of wait time to go through the recruiting process is okay with you then?
Well since it is not your life/time that gets wasted I can see how you may not be able to understand my point of view.
I have a friend (born in Canada of British parents) who had to wait for more than 2+ years for 'her' background/reliability checks to be completed. That's a waste of time. I am told the reason is lack of staff who do the checks. There are a handful of them in Canada.
Wasting peoples' time/energy/life should be unacceptable. And this is the same process I have embarked upon and I am worried it is going to take years for me too. It'd be great if you could put yourself in my shoes for a moment ((guessing you know nothing about me)) and see how that eventual wait time can be very stressful and unproductive.

thx

OK, you've had your rant.

How about answering the question.

Better yet, how about just posting the email you sent her?

 

[Remius]

So basically 1-2 yrs of wait time to go through the recruiting process is okay with you then?
Well since it is not your life/time that gets wasted I can see how you may not be able to understand my point of view.
I have a friend (born in Canada of British parents) who had to wait for more than 2+ years for 'her' background/reliability checks to be completed. That's a waste of time. I am told the reason is lack of staff who do the checks. There are a handful of them in Canada.
Wasting peoples' time/energy/life should be unacceptable. And this is the same process I have embarked upon and I am worried it is going to take years for me too. It'd be great if you could put yourself in my shoes for a moment ((guessing you know nothing about me)) and see how that eventual wait time can be very stressful and unproductive.

thx

Not necessarily acceptable but as some people have mentioned, it can be an unfortunate necessity.  I don't know what your situations is but most of the time, delays like that are attributable to various outside factors.

Here are a few:

- You travelled to Saudi Arabia to teach for 6 months.  Good for you but now a pre-security clearance needs to be done that will take time.  Why?  The security folks do security clearances for everyone.  Potential applicants are not priority.  Priority goes to actual soldiers that need it for deployment, jobs, postings etc etc.  They'll get to you when they get to you and even then, if the country you visited isn't on good terms with us it could take a while.

- You have a medical issue we need your doctor to confirm or follow up on.  You go see your doctor.  He says no problem.  But it takes him 3 months to get the CFRC the necessary information.

- Same medical info now has to go to a MO.  Likely the only MO who does this nationally. Might take time.

- Maybe you applied for one of those trades you hear about in fairy tales and legends and it takes a few years to actually open 1 spot.

Many factors that are outside the recruiting realm affect intake and the ones I listed are outside CFRG or even CMP's control.  Now they can certainly lobby for more priority, MOs etc etc.  But guess what, so is everyone else.

But ask yourself how long it takes to get into the PS, a police force or say a fire department. 

CFRG has many things it can control and needs to fix but some things are out of their control.

 

[PuckChaser]

So basically 1-2 yrs of wait time to go through the recruiting process is okay with you then?
Well since it is not your life/time that gets wasted I can see how you may not be able to understand my point of view.
I have a friend (born in Canada of British parents) who had to wait for more than 2+ years for 'her' background/reliability checks to be completed. That's a waste of time. I am told the reason is lack of staff who do the checks. There are a handful of them in Canada.
Wasting peoples' time/energy/life should be unacceptable. And this is the same process I have embarked upon and I am worried it is going to take years for me too. It'd be great if you could put yourself in my shoes for a moment ((guessing you know nothing about me)) and see how that eventual wait time can be very stressful and unproductive.

Your process is delayed because you were a member of a foreign military (see, I know something about you). That means checks are done to see if you're actually discharged (honourably), or to confirm you're not AWOL. As well, seeing as how you list your rank as PFC, and have 2 years experience, you've lived outside Canada for at least 2-3 years and probably in the US. Now your ERC security check is exponentially more complex as they're going to have to search through US databases. You're also not a Canadian citizen, which adds more wait time even if you have permanent resident status, not to mention more time to the security check because you've more than likely lived outside Canada for more than the 2-3 years listed above, ERC goes back 10 years. Finally, considering your question about criminal records and "petty charges", I'm willing to bet there's something thats going to come up on a US background check, delaying your process further, despite your assurance that the charges were dropped.

So, please tell me again how I know nothing about you?

Background/reliability checks are contracted out, unless you need a pre-security screening because you've lived outside the country. Then you sit in the same boat with the rest of us waiting for security clearances, who are actually serving in the CF and need their clearances for operational reasons (yes, there is a priority system for deployments). The security screening system besides ERCs is completely outside the CFRG, and does clearances for everyone from MPs to CF members to RCMP people. Thats a lot of workload even if they have more staff.

If you want stressful and unproductive, just wait till you're actually in (if you get in). I've had times that are stressful, unproductive, or stressful because what I'm doing is unproductive. Welcome to the Canadian Forces.

thx

No problem, don't mention it.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

It's been 36 years now and I'm still waiting for NASA to get back to me..............I'm starting to think that they're just wasting my time.  Maybe I should come up with alternate plans just in case??

No, I'm sure they'll call,....it's just incompetence on their part.