Armour regiments and what do they offer.

[MeunierConsole01]

Hi !

I'm currently interested into joining the cf as an armoured soldier. I took my time to ask as many question as possible to many persons who are involved with armor regiment in Canada. I had the chance to visit the 12 rbc once, and to talk with retired nco's who explained me how it works in this combat branch. I'd like to start as an nco, but I'm currently studying in university; so the officer route is not closed for me. No decision has been taken and I'm still looking at the pro's and con's of those two careers route ( nco vs officer )

I want to learn more about the regiments in the regular force. There is the LdSh in edmonton, the RCD in petawawa and the 12 rbc in valcartier. I heard that an armoured crewman could get transfered to gagetown or wainwright; If I'm right gagetown is where the armour school is at, but what about wainwright and how those two cf bases compare to the 3 units in alberta, ontario and quebec respectively? How the new leopard tanks have been distributed to the regiments ( I'm more interested into leopard than recce ) and how the TAPV and the CCV programm are going to change the dynamics in the armoured section of the army ?

As the end of my studies are approaching and as I'm currently in a relationship which I hope will last after I receive my degree, I'm wondering how relocations happens in the armoured corps. I was told that officers tend to move quite regularly, but that nco's can spend an entire career in the same regiment. I met a retired warrant who spent his entire time in valcartier. Moving to another place doesn't bother me too much, I'm near the mid 20's and have already moved 12 times in my life... It's just that I plan on getting the "it's either me or your career" statement if I'm engaged to someone who doesn't want to leave someday.

I hope to get some answers from you,

Thanks !

 

[MikeL]

You don't start as a NCO,  you would start as a NCM.

Officers will do time outside the regiment to get experience/check in the box, etc.  From what I've seen there are course officer positions at the schools as well as Brigade Head Quarters, etc.

At some point in your career at the NCO level you can be posted outside of the Regiment to do some time as an instructor at a school or another position(such as CMTC).

Yea you are correct,  the Armour School(and others) are located at CFB Gagetown.  Wainwright runs courses that a Armour NCO could instruct on such as BMQ-Land.  Plus the Canadian Manoeuvre Training Centre is in Wainwright.  I've also seen some Armour NCOs teaching in Meaford.  Also if you are posted outside of the Regiment,  you will still belong to it(keep Regimental Affiliation).

The RCDs aren't entirely in Petawawa,  they also have a Squadron in Gagetown.

 

[MeunierConsole01]

oops sorry for the confusion between NCO and NCM. So when you progress through the ranks you may be posted for instruction purposes; but what about ncm's, do they get transferred to another unit on a regular basis or they can stick with their regiment if they wish to ? I believe there may be a language barrier between the 12 rbc and the LdSh/RCD, does a duality between francophones and anglophones exist ? I'm interested by all of the 3 regiments but I'm wondering if you can integrate pretty well into a unit that does not speak your 1st language.

Thanks for the clarification on the wainwright and gagetown bases;

I'm still interested to learn more about the leos and the TAPV/CCV programs.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

The LdSH is indeed in Edmonton. They have two tank squadrons and one recce squadron. The RCD are in Petawawa with three recce squadrons and a tank squadron in Gagetown. The 12e RBC are in Valcartier with three recce squadrons but provide half of RCD tank squadron in Gagetown. The Armour School is also in Gagetown and has officers and soldiers from all three regiments. Edmonton and Valcartier are both real cities with everything that goes with that. Petawawa is more isolated, but the fishing and snowmobiling are excellent and Ottawa is just down the highway. Gagetown is quite close to Fredericton and is actually a great place to live. Really. I meant that!

All three regiments are great places to work, although of course I prefer the RCD. All three regiments offer chances to serve on tanks, but the odds are greater with the LdSH. Transfers between regiments are quite rare, but are certainly possible. On the language issue, there are certainly francophones in the RCD. We send soldiers to the 12e RBC on occasion after a french course, and the odd anglophone officer starts there. I can't speak for the language situation in the LdSH.

Officers can expect to get posted every three years or so. NCMs can serve in one location for years, although postings are possible for Cpls. Once you get to Sgt or WO you can expect to get posted. Officers and Sgts/WOs can expect to get posted to the School in Gagetown at some point in their career, and if not there then to a regional training centre. Posting to Reserve units are also quite common for Capts and Warrant Officers.

Cheers,

T2B

 

[REDinstaller]

We have several Crew Commanders that are bilingual here at the Regt. Along with several of the Tpr/Cpls.

 

[mariomike]

Also worth mentioning, for anyone who loves horses, is that LdSH has a Mounted Troop.

 

[MeunierConsole01]

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer me !!

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Reg force Sgt here, 20 years in the armour corps.

Originally from Montreal and completely bilingual. 

Posting history:
Cornwallis, NS (basic training, 10 weeks?)
Gagetown, NB (Armour training, 5 months?)
Vacartier, QC (1st posting, ~2 years)
Gagetown, NB (2nd posting, ~10 years)
Valcartier, QC (3rd posting, ~2 years)
Montreal, QC (4th posting, ~2 years)
Valcartier, QC (5th posting, 1 year)
Calgary, AB (6th posting.. ongoing)

I was in Edmonton yesterday and bumped into one of several francos they have posted there.  12RBC has bilingual anglos and the RCD (as said above) has many bilingual troops as well.

 

[MeunierConsole01]

Hi !

Can you explain how did you ended up doing 6 postings in your career ? Was it by choice or you've been designated to move ? What was your occupation in Montreal ?

I'm also asking the same question again about the TAPV and the CCV program. I've found the "la tourelle" regimentary newspaper of the 12e RBC on their official website. An article was about the new vehicle from textron, the vehicle the canadian forces bought to replace the coyote. They did mention the upgraded LAV III (They use the "LRSS UP" acronym in the article) to take on the role of the coyote aswell. I'm far from being an armour expert, but I'm interested in knowing how is it going to affect the armoured crewman job in the future. Those two vehicles looks different in their capabilities so I wanted to know what is going to happen to new recruits who will be integrated into a recce squadron and how the vehicles are going to work together, based on your experience/opinion; Since I'm more interested into the 12e RBC regiment, if I suceed into becomming an armoured crewman, recce is going to be the option that this regiment will give me.

Source : http://12rbc.ca/upload/journal-la-tourelle/tourelle-2012-01.pdf (page 38-39)

Thanks !

 

[Franko]

Recce is not platform dependant. It can be done with any vehicle.

We did it when we changed from the Lynx to the Coyote and it will be the same wi the new vehicles as well.

Regards.

 

[MeunierConsole01]

Understood ! Thanks !

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Armoured recce will use a mixture of TAPV and LAV. It will mean that crewmen will need more courses to maintain flexibility at the Troop level, but that is not a bad thing.

Regarding postings, the requirements of the service drive drive the process. We try to match individual preferences to positions, but at the end of the day you go where we need you. For an example of an officer's life, my own posting history is:

Petawawa - tank Troop Leader
Meaford - Training Officer
Petawawa - Battle Captain, etc
Kingston - LFDTS ( staff officer)
Gagetown - Recce Squadron Commander
Petawawa - Regimental Second in Command

Be prepared for a nomadic lifestyle!

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Both my Montreal and my Calgary postings have been "extra-regimental" in that I kept the cap badge but was not on the strength of the unit itself.  I was posted to reserve brigade headquarters.  The first time was due to family reasons the second time was for personal reasons.  They are NOT common posting until you obtain the rank of Sergeant in most cases.

 

[MeunierConsole01]

Hi !

How can a future candidate know if regiments have openings for recruits ? Do you have to ask the regiment directly or the recruiter can tell you ? This question came into my mind as I was reading other topics here on the forum and it looks like armour regiments are full, meaning you get on a waiting list or if you get an opening, you end up being a truck driver while waiting to get in an armoured vehicle (according to what I've read). I wasn't aware that you can wait for a long time before you get to do what you enlisted for ! If someone could clarify it would be appreciated.

Thank you !

 

[Teager]

Hi !

How can a future candidate know if regiments have openings for recruits ? Do you have to ask the regiment directly or the recruiter can tell you ? This question came into my mind as I was reading other topics here on the forum and it looks like armour regiments are full, meaning you get on a waiting list or if you get an opening, you end up being a truck driver while waiting to get in an armoured vehicle (according to what I've read). I wasn't aware that you can wait for a long time before you get to do what you enlisted for ! If someone could clarify it would be appreciated.

Thank you !

Are you looking at joining Regular Force or Reserves? If Reserves you will have to go to the unit directly to find out if they have any open positions. Reg force you will need to speak to a recruiter. I don't know where your getting info on being a truck driver from.

 

[MeunierConsole01]

I'm looking for the reg. ! My statement about being a troop transport truck driver came from this post :

"Pretty much all questions that can be answered by a recruiter for the interested party, and yet even then are difficult to answer with pinpoint accuracy. Even the lowly trooper can tell you regiments in the Corps. are bursting at the seams right now in terms of numbers. Our transport troop is the size of an entire tank squadron right now as it's the only place that has "room" for new guys to go when they arrive at regiment. As far as I can tell, they're hiring strictly for turnover from releasing and retiring personnel. "

Which was found in this thread :

http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/104422.0.html

I must say that it's not a very encouraging situation for potential recruits looking to get into armoured rgmts !

 

[George Wallace]

I'm looking for the reg. ! My statement about being a troop transport truck driver came from this post :

"Pretty much all questions that can be answered by a recruiter for the interested party, and yet even then are difficult to answer with pinpoint accuracy. Even the lowly trooper can tell you regiments in the Corps. are bursting at the seams right now in terms of numbers. Our transport troop is the size of an entire tank squadron right now as it's the only place that has "room" for new guys to go when they arrive at regiment. As far as I can tell, they're hiring strictly for turnover from releasing and retiring personnel. "

Which was found in this thread :

http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/104422.0.html

I must say that it's not a very encouraging situation for potential recruits looking to get into armoured rgmts !

No matter what Reg Force Sqn you are in, you can be course loaded onto a D&M or Gunnery Crse to qualify you to be a Gunner or Driver of other vehicles than trucks.  Where you are employed in the Regiment will be dictated by where there are openings; and those will change annually, or with taskings.  So; you can be qualified as a Tank Driver, but still be in HQ Sqn driving a truck at some time in your career.  Primary considerations in training personal on qualifications in all Armour units is to have the troops trained as AFV drivers and gunners, so this should not be a concern to anyone applying.  Truck drivers is a "filler".

 

[2ndChoiceName]

Apologies if this is the wrong thread to be asking, but do PRes Armoured Crewmen automatically get put into a Recce element if they CT to the Reg Force since Reservists get no training on tanks?

 

[Franko]

You'll do your trades training at either the school or at the Regiment.

If it's at the school, it'll either be Recce platform or tank. That all depends on which Regiment you are going to be posted to and what THEY need.

Good luck.

 

[2ndChoiceName]

Thanks. I only ask because if I do decide to try for a CT, I'd love to move out west (Edmonton, LdSH), but I'm not sure whether I'd want to be in a tank squadron as opposed to recce.