ACSO 00182 Component Transfer

[PMedMoe]

Can I drop all my other career selections and just keep the AERE option, and wait until its open again?
Is there will be a penalty for do this (wasting CFRC's time)?

Yes.

Shouldn't be.

 

[PMedMoe]

Wait, didn't you ask this question once already??

Yep, here:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/89761/post-882655.html#msg882655

and here:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/89315/post-882654.html#msg882654

:

 

[George Wallace]

Wait, didn't you ask this question once already??

Yep, here: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/89761/post-882655.html#msg882655
and here:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/89315/post-882654.html#msg882654

:

 

[gcclarke]

Since AERE is closed for this year I was interviewed for and going ahead with the ACSO option now. Now my question is that what are the careers available for ACSO's after they leave the forces? I want to do masters in engineering in aerospace engineering later in the future. Does this will help me with that?
Thanks

If by your last question, you are asking whether or not the CF will sponsor you for Post-Graduate education in Aerospace Engineering while serving as a ACSO, then your answer is no. Those opportunities are reserved for AEREs only. There are a number of other post-grad degrees in different fields that an ACSO can apply for while serving. If you would like, I can forward you the entire list.

If on the other hand, you're asking whether or not service as an ACSO would make your application to a university for a M.Eng in aerospace engineering more attractive than someone who did not have experience serving in the Air Force, then I believe your answer is likely yes, but would depend greatly upon the policy of the admissions office at the particular school.

 

[p2shanmu]

I didn't know where the question fell under that's why both places, and I apologize for this inconvenience. Anyways so you are saying I can drop the other selections. Will I get penalized for do this, because I was interviewed already, now my next step is to do an AirFactor?

and gcclarke thanks for your advise. can I PM you?

Thanks

 

[SupersonicMax]

If by your last question, you are asking whether or not the CF will sponsor you for Post-Graduate education in Aerospace Engineering while serving as a ACSO, then your answer is no. Those opportunities are reserved for AEREs only. There are a number of other post-grad degrees in different fields that an ACSO can apply for while serving. If you would like, I can forward you the entire list.

PG opportunities are for every trade.  Not only AEREs. 

 

[gcclarke]

PG opportunities are for every trade.  Not only AEREs.

Post-grad opportunities are for every trade. Post-graduate opportunities for degree programs that would be considered Aerospace Engineering are only for AEREs. Or, at least, for the 2010 PG competition, the following programs are only available to AERE.

Aircraft Structures at Cranfield University, UK
Aircraft Propulsion Systems at Cranfield or RMC
Aerodynamics at University of Tennessee Space Institute, USA
Design, Analysis, and Selection of Air Weapons, Cranfield or Naval Postgraduate School, USA
Aircraft Communications Systems Engineering, RMC
Imaging Systems Engineering, Rochester Institute of Technology
Electrical Engineering - Real Time Digital System, RMC
Airborne Electronic Warning Systems, RMC

As well, for the following degrees, AERE is the only Air Force trade which is elidgible:
Reliability, Maintainability and Systems Analysis, Rutgers State University, or University of Arizona, or RMC
Chemical Engineering, RMC
Electro-Optics Engineering, RMC or Universite Laval
Advanced Ammunition Engineering, Cranfield, or Defence College of Management and Technology, UK

So, it seems to me that covers off all the degree programs on the list that would fall under the sub-category of "Aerospace Engineering".

 

[SupersonicMax]

It's University Specific.  It is possible for trades other than Engineering to do Engineering PG.

What if I want to do a Masters of Aerospace Science and Engineering at UoT?

 

[hauger]

There seems to be a lot of interest and activity with people transfering into or applying for ACSO, and, well, I'm kind of confused.

Is ACSO actually a higher demand (or even normal demand) trade right now?  It's not a dying trade, but with 436 posting out their ACSO's, isn't there a slight surplus in ACSO manpower?

How many people per year are actually getting trained by Winnipeg right now for future ACSO employment?

 

[aesop081]

  It's not a dying trade, but with 436 posting out their ACSO's, isn't there a slight surplus in ACSO manpower?

Dont forget that the CP-140 community is in the middle of a switchover from ACSO to AES Op when it comes to the ASO seats. This further reduces the number of ACSO positions in line sqns.

 

[bouncer2004]

Wow, didn't really expect a lively discussion...

Update: Still trying to get my unit to sort out my pay upon transfer, definitely not going to get IPC 1, it is going to be 2LT basic...

In terms of the course, I don't mind doing it again, but some of the guys I know are adamant in telling me 'No one should ever have to redo basic'...I do realize my BOTP mod 1&2 from Res may not be enough to bypass the BMOQ, hey it was either redo 8 weeks of BMOQ at St Jean or 10 weeks of CAP (Originally placed on course on Sep 28 09 at Gagetown)...go figure...my hope is to get my pay sorted out since the only pay reduction is for something administrative action punishment...

 

[bouncer2004]

gcclarke,

I am interested in the list for ACSO post grad degrees....could you post it for me?

 

[hauger]

Dont forget that the CP-140 community is in the middle of a switchover from ACSO to AES Op when it comes to the ASO seats. This further reduces the number of ACSO positions in line sqns.

I did forget that piece.  On the other hand though, they did add them to the CC150 to run the strat air-to-air refueling, and there's that whole UAV gig.  Another issue though on the horizon would be the FWSAR replacement if something like the C-27J which again removes the position from the flight deck.

So, can anyone tell me what the throughput in Winnipeg is?  Are they training 50 people a year?  200?  Somewhere in the middle?

 

[gcclarke]

It's University Specific.  It is possible for trades other than Engineering to do Engineering PG.

What if I want to do a Masters of Aerospace Science and Engineering at UoT?

Perhaps I didn't make this as clear as I could have. I was referring specifically to the Post-Graduate Training Program (Sponsored), as outlined in CFAO 9-33. The degree programs that I outlined in my previous post came from the message announcing the 2010 competition for that program. And applications to that program are trade specific, unless the particular program being listed specifies it is available to any General Service Officer.

2. THE PGT (SPONSORED) PROGRAM IS INTENDED TO SELECT SUITABLE CANDIDATES FOR PGT IN A RELEVANT OCCUPATION SPECIALTY QUALIFICATION (OSQ) FOR SUBSEQUENT EMPLOYMENT IN A SPECIFICALLY ANNOTATED ESTABLISHMENT POSN REQUIRING SUCH TRG. THE POSNS FOR WHICH PGT IS INTENDED TO COMMENCE IN 2010 ARE INDICATED AT THE END OF THIS MSG, ALONG WITH THE MOSID AND RANK(S) APPLICABLE TO EACH OSQ. APPLICATIONS WILL ONLY BE ACCEPTED FOR THE OSQ LISTED IN THIS MSG, AND ONLY FROM APPLICANTS OF THE APPLICABLE MOSID AND RANK FOR EACH OSQ, WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT MBRS ONE RANK BELOW MAY BE CONSIDERED IF DEEMED APPROPRIATE FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT POSN.

There are a few other ways to get the Forces to pay for your post-grad degree, such as the "Advanced Degree - Part Time Programme for Regular Force Officers", as outlined in CF Military Personnel Instructions 18/04, at (http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/mpi-ipm/18-04-eng.asp). But that route seems less desirable to me, as I would much rather be working on a Master's degree full time rather than part time.

Unless I am sorely mistaken, the Post-Graduate Training Program (Sponsored) is the only method via which one can attend a university full time for the purpose of completing a Master's degree, without having to take leave without pay, with the CF covering the education expenses. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this point, because as I've mentioned before, our regulations are rather Byzantine in nature, and it's entirely possible that I missed a CFAO or DAOD covering another program that does the same thing.

But, under that program, as outlined in the 2010 competition message, no M.Eng programs in Aerospace Engineering are open to any trade other than AERE, and they are only available at the institutions I cited.

Update: with regard to being restricted to the institutions listed, the FAQ on the website of the Director General Military Careers says the following:

Q7:Will DMCA 5 consider university choices outside of those advertised in the annual competition message?

It generally comes down to cost. Tuition can represent a substantial portion of our overall program cost, therefore we will attempt to utilize RMC whenever possible. Where it can be shown more cost effective to send an applicant to a university within the geographical boundary of the applicant's present posting or the position to be filled, then DMCA 5 will definitely consider the request in consultation with the sponsor.

And as I mentioned, I'm not going to post the entire message here, because it is quite long, but if anyone wants a copy, PM me with your e-mail address.

 

[bouncer2004]

Wow, thank you all for the insights and information...

Last Update: So it's clear that I will receive OCdt pay while in St Jean but retroactive to 2LT basic upon graduation, may loose a few hundred on taxes but better than nothing...STILL don't have my EPT nor ticket, hope some good news come Thurs or Fri,

ACSO is a trade that is not heavy on flying but on ops on aircrafts, seriously, if you want to be a pilot, I suggest you either wait until they hire, or get the training yourself...

 

[SeaKingTacco]

ACSO is a trade that is not heavy on flying but on ops on aircrafts, seriously, if you want to be a pilot, I suggest you either wait until they hire, or get the training yourself...

I was going to stay out of this thread, but things are starting to get ridiculous. 

First, ACSO is not a "dying" trade.  It is an Occupation that about 100 people short (out of about 600 total), so yeah, we are starting to hurt.  The whole reason for the occupation for the occupation is flying.  I have 1600 hours.  Most of my contemporaries have much more.  You will fly as an ACSO.

Second, ACSO throughput at 1 CFFTS last year was 18 Canadians.  This year looks to be about 24. Next year-who knows? Our ability to absorb people on Sqn is only slightly above this number (that said- every Sqn that I am aware of is short of ACSOs).  At least it will be until the UAV Operator stream comes online.  Although the ACSO role is being reduced on the Aurora, it is not going away. 

Third- Post Graduate.  You will only get Post Grad full time if you can find some directorate or unit that is willing to sponsor your degree.  You will go to work for them after you graduate.  You will incur additional obligatory service.  Don't count on getting Post Grad- very few get handed out each year CF wide.

Bottom line- ACSO is a good career that has been extremely good to me.

Look, troops- feel free to ask questions, but if you don't know what you are talking about, please don't clutter up a thread with speculation.

 

[prima6]

Unless I am sorely mistaken, the Post-Graduate Training Program (Sponsored) is the only method via which one can attend a university full time for the purpose of completing a Master's degree, without having to take leave without pay, with the CF covering the education expenses. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this point, because as I've mentioned before, our regulations are rather Byzantine in nature, and it's entirely possible that I missed a CFAO or DAOD covering another program that does the same thing.

There are other ways if you have a scholarship (e.g. Post-Graduate Degree on Scholarship), but the CF doesn't cover any education expenses, only your pay.  I did it this way with an NSERC scholarship and with the university top up the education funding was far higher than it would have been if I'd been on a sponsored degree.  My tuition was around $6K per year but the NSERC plus the university top up for coming with an NSERC scholarship was around $21K per year.  Also, the choice of degree was much wider.  I don't know of any other ways to do nuclear physics other than on your own dime.

The PG on scholarship is only available to ROTP, UTPNCM and UTPO during their final year of their baccalaureate degree and on special authority to officers if they choose to take LWOP, so the eligibility is fairly narrow.

 

[prima6]

I was going to stay out of this thread, but things are starting to get ridiculous. 

First, ACSO is not a "dying" trade.  It is an Occupation that about 100 people short (out of about 600 total), so yeah, we are starting to hurt.  The whole reason for the occupation for the occupation is flying.  I have 1600 hours.  Most of my contemporaries have much more.  You will fly as an ACSO.

Second, ACSO throughput at 1 CFFTS last year was 18 Canadians.  This year looks to be about 24. Next year-who knows? Our ability to absorb people on Sqn is only slightly above this number (that said- every Sqn that I am aware of is short of ACSOs).  At least it will be until the UAV Operator stream comes online.  Although the ACSO role is being reduced on the Aurora, it is not going away. 

We've been directed at 1CFFTS that throughput is going to increase dramatically in 2011.  We'll have to run 7 courses with 8 students and have been told these will all be slots for Canadians.  Based on historical completion rates I believe this is supposed to produce somewhere hear 45 ACSOs per year.  I saw the breakdown and I don't recall all of the numbers, but MH and UAV Op are going to be the major draws for graduates at 12 each per year in 2012.  Auroras IIRC is 7 or 8 per year. 

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

I understand this is a fairly old thread, but in the search function it appeared to be the closest to what I'm looking for answers on.

I'm flirting with the idea of a CT in the near future to ACSO.  While I am fully aware that only after I put the CT in, have my file reviewed and perhaps receive an offer that I would know anything for sure, I would still be interested to find out any information from anyone that has undergone the process of CT'ing to ACSO after being fully qualified in another officer trade.  I'm curious as to such things like rank retention (currently a Captain, so would the expectation be for me to drop to Lt, 2Lt or perhaps retain my current rank?)  Every case is different and based on an individual file review, but personal stories to get a feel for what to expect (or by current ACSO's with knowledge) is appreciated.  I do know as well that moving from Army to Air Force everything after BMOQ is different, so I'm under no illusions to have anything written off.

Thanks.

 

[dimsum]

I understand this is a fairly old thread, but in the search function it appeared to be the closest to what I'm looking for answers on.

I'm flirting with the idea of a CT in the near future to ACSO.  While I am fully aware that only after I put the CT in, have my file reviewed and perhaps receive an offer that I would know anything for sure, I would still be interested to find out any information from anyone that has undergone the process of CT'ing to ACSO after being fully qualified in another officer trade.  I'm curious as to such things like rank retention (currently a Captain, so would the expectation be for me to drop to Lt, 2Lt or perhaps retain my current rank?)  Every case is different and based on an individual file review, but personal stories to get a feel for what to expect (or by current ACSO's with knowledge) is appreciated.  I do know as well that moving from Army to Air Force everything after BMOQ is different, so I'm under no illusions to have anything written off.

Thanks.

I made the switch back in 2007 after becoming a BWK-qualified MARS officer (SLt).  I was brought over with the same rank (Lt) and IPC, and as I had fulfilled the promotion criteria to Capt by the end of the Nav course, I was promoted on parade to Capt.  I didn't know of anyone who swapped over as a Capt, but I wouldn't be surprised if your rank stays the same as well.