A mistake?

[Terry2124]

I am currently in NETP and my QL3 starts in July.  Every day I hear about something negative in regards to my trade and I believe I was mislead and the next four years will not be good.

I understand the QL3 is too easy and QL5 has over a 50% failure rate.

There is no real certification with QL3. It does not translate over to civilian mechanics.

Progression?  It's a matter of time spent not ones motivation to progress forward.

A lot of stokers remuster.

Not much hands on at all unless I work on a supply ship.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

First off, very few CF trades training courses have DIRECT civilian equivalents. Also, just when we started working informally with TC (Transport Canada) for hard Navy trades, IMO (International Maritime Organization)changed the rules and so working with TC is in abeyance right now.
I am not sure what you were told in the Recruiting Centre but most QL3s are fairly straight forward. QL5 for MAR ENG does NOT have a 50% cross-the-board failure rate (not sure where you are getting that from), but it is indeed challenging.
Progression is a combination of time in, motivation and level of knowledge translated into a QL5 merit list through a PER.

As for re musters, again, I am not sure where you are getting your info. MAR ENG has no more re musters OUT than other trades and has just as many re musters into the trade.

Stop hanging around with the naysayers who are feeding you all this crap-Best trade in the CF-Bar none!! Seriously though, be one of the 'doers' not one of the 'not my job' people-You will be rewarded-That I can guarantee.

Keep us up to date on how things go. By the way, are you doing NETP east or west? Are you going to try to go east or west?

Pat

 

[PAdm]

Seriously though, be one of the 'doers' not one of the 'not my job' people-You will be rewarded-That I can guarantee.

Keep us up to date on how things go.

Hi Pat. Fully agree and nicely said. This is why I enjoy this forum. There is always room in the CF for hardworking folks. Not all of us are going to be CDS, but we can make a difference.

 

[dimsum]

Agree with both Pat and PAdm.  One of the best things about the CAF is that you have your job (MAR ENG in this case), but with a little time in and the desire, you can branch out for leadership opportunities, free education, etc.  In fact, given the amount of those things that don't get filled, I'd say the military encourages it.

There's more to the military than what your MOSID says you do.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Not much hands on at all unless I work on a supply ship.

Terry:

I concur in all the comments above. Also, I don't know where you got the impression that Mar Eng only get hands on on a supply ship. I have never known a warship (any class) that had a shortage of hands on work for its Mar Eng's.

 

[Occam]

I'm not aware of any trade in the CF that has a corresponding civilian qual at the QL3 level.  That includes WEng Tech (formerly NE Tech), ATIS Tech, ACISS (which LCIS Techs merged into), MAR ENG, and MAR EL.  Those are just off the top of my head.  If there's a corresponding civilian qual, you'd have to be at the QL5 level to be eligible for it - and in some cases, you have a requisite amount of time working in the trade to get the civilian qual after going through the application procedure.

 

[George Wallace]

I'm not aware of any trade in the CF that has a corresponding civilian qual at the QL3 level.  That includes WEng Tech (formerly NE Tech), ATIS Tech, ACISS (which LCIS Techs merged into), MAR ENG, and MAR EL.  Those are just off the top of my head.  If there's a corresponding civilian qual, you'd have to be at the QL5 level to be eligible for it - and in some cases, you have a requisite amount of time working in the trade to get the civilian qual after going through the application procedure.

Although this likely covers all the bases in what civilian qualifications one would earn in the CF, there are opportunities in many Trades for the individual to go 'downtown' and "Challenge" their certificates and earn the civilian certificates that way.

 

[MeanJean]

I am currently in NETP and my QL3 starts in July.  Every day I hear about something negative in regards to my trade and I believe I was mislead and the next four years will not be good....

Not much hands on at all unless I work on a supply ship.

I'm not a stoker but I stayed at Holiday Inn Express last night (bad joke). I meant that I have worked closely with many stokers for many years.  Your first four years will be busy as there is a lot of training packages and drawings of ship systems to complete.  I know a lot of stokers who love their jobs.  I have two brother-in-laws who are retired stokers and are now employed with civilian companies using their years of experience in the naval environment.  Starting off in any trade is a lot of work but it gets easier down the road.

You will definitely be getting you hands dirty, actually you will be getting pretty dirty from head to toe.  Engineering equipment breaks down all the time and must be fixed at sea or along side.  In your first years you may be tasked to assist with repairs and if you are not, you can always ask if you can help.  I don't know too many stokers, electricians or hull techs who would turn down an extra set of hands or turn away a new member to show him or her how something in done.

I have a question for you, Terry.  Why did you choose stoker on your application?

 

[DAA]

I am currently in NETP and my QL3 starts in July.  Every day I hear about something negative in regards to my trade and I believe I was mislead and the next four years will not be good.
I understand the QL3 is too easy and QL5 has over a 50% failure rate.
There is no real certification with QL3. It does not translate over to civilian mechanics.
Progression?  It's a matter of time spent not ones motivation to progress forward.
A lot of stokers remuster.
Not much hands on at all unless I work on a supply ship.

Your going to find comments like this everywhere you go.  Your occupation is only what "you" make of it and the same can be said for postings.  You need to learn the occupation first, so don't expect to be rebuilding the ships engines on your first day.

To be a Marine Engineer on the civilian side, generally requires 4 years of study before you even see any hands on action.  It's surprising what the CF can do with it's people in that span of time and just what those people are capable of.

Words of advice.....I'd steer clear of those who have nothing be negative things to say about the occupation.  They will only drag you down with them!

 

[Terry2124]

Thanks for the responses, many questions are "Where did you hear this?".

I chose stoker because I was laid off and the recruiting center did  a good job at selling the position.  I enjoy mechanical work.


I just finished my NETP.  I will answer the question where I heard this stuff from.  It is fairly shocking why I am taking this seriously.

The people (MS,LS,PO2,PO1)'s  who are and where stokers and....are down to earth "honest"...Instructors.  Some at the Fleet School and some at Damage Control School. 

I understand hearing from other people on ships is one story but hearing from stoker instructors.......depressing.


On another subject I am very pissed off.  I am married, have mortgage and dependants and they FORCE me to pay rations.  600$ a month.  I don't eat that much. 

 

[Pat in Halifax]

I have responded to your PM...

Pat

 

[Terry2124]

Thank you Pat, I have responded.


Today I learned why there is a 50% failure rate in QL5 here at the fleet school.

Stoker is hands on except when promoted past Kilik.  Some people actually fail on purpose.  Not all of course.  The rest fail because of the advanced Math and Physics. 

I understand I guess, some people are excellent with their hands and not so good figuring out math problems.  The people who are great in Math may not be so good working with their hands.

 

[MeanJean]

Things must be a bit different on the West Coast.  Out on the East the QL5 failure rate is not as high.

The MAR ENG QL5 is a career course and the failure of any career course results in one of the three options: retake the course, remuster to another trade or release from the CF.  So those failing on purpose typically do so with the intentions of changing trades.  It can be risky as selection is very limited as there are fewer openings and by failing off a technical course they would have closed the door to all other technical trades.  Once you finish your QL5 course you will be a qualified technician/mechanic and should be entitled to Specialist Pay Level 1 but that is under review right now.  I am surprised that there isn't a thread on that.

As a MS you will be a working supervisor, meaning you will be even busier than you were as a LS.  You will be down in the spaces when equipment needs repairs and then you will have your administrative duties on top of that.  The best thing right now is to focus your training.  When you get to a ship you will be able to see what it is like for yourself and to paraphrase DAA "it is what you will make of it". A lot can happen between now until the end of your initial contract.

 

[Terry2124]

I figured I might as well update this thread.


I graduated from my QL3  as top student.  It was an honor to receive the top student coin from the commandant.

I guess you may be wondering if my views have changed and if my questions were answered?

Yes.


I understand the ladder and the start is the very bottom rung.  The education  and amount of knowledge a stoker learns is incredible. Progression depends on how motivated the individual can be.    The biggest thing for me..... Education.  What a stoker will learn will make him or her a valuable asset.

Biggest disappointment.......,  Forced to pay rations with a mortgage and family.    This hurt my family bad.  This needs to change.  Older people are joining the forces and older people usually have a family or mortgage or both.


In conclusion, was this truly a mistake?


No.  Things are looking very optimistic.  I encourage anyone who may have questions please message me.   


My goals now...  Report to ship after I move to Halifax, start my paper work and get my cert 1 ASAP.  I plan on giving it my all.  Even though I had administration issues regarding rations I have good things to say about the trade. 

I would also like to thank everyone who has chimed in with feedback.

 

[marinemech]

Good for you man, good luck in your future training and asskickery  ;D

 

[Monsoon]

Biggest disappointment.......,  Forced to pay rations with a mortgage and family.    This hurt my family bad.  This needs to change.  Older people are joining the forces and older people usually have a family or mortgage or both.

Not to discount your opinion on this, but consider - you've just been paid a full salary (less R&Q) to be trained in a trade. A lot of older people retrain in the civilian sector at their own expense without salary. Something to think about.

 

[PMedMoe]

Not to discount your opinion on this, but consider - you've just been paid a full salary (less R &Q) to be trained in a trade. A lot of older people retrain in the civilian sector at their own expense without salary. Something to think about.

FTFY. 

 

[PAdm]

Congrats!!  Well done to you. The CAF always has opportunities for hard workers like you. Continue to excel in all you do and be a leader. Take care of your family and shipmates. Good things will happen. Just think long term.

 

[Terry2124]

Congrats!!  Well done to you. The CAF always has opportunities for hard workers like you. Continue to excel in all you do and be a leader. Take care of your family and shipmates. Good things will happen. Just think long term.

Thank you