8 Canadians killed in Israeli airstrikes, Ottawa sends ships for evacuation
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This is where the evacuated Brits slept. : HMS Illustrious ship's company prepare temporary beds in the hangar for oncoming evacuees [Picture: Royal Navy]
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http://www.torontosun.ca/News/Columnists/Worthington_Peter/2006/07/21/1695081.html
Convenient Canadians
By PETER WORTHINGTON
What in heaven's name are 50,000 Canadians doing in Lebanon? Surely they can't all be there for a wedding, or a family reunion, or an academic conference, or even as tourists? The estimated 50,000 are roughly 20% of all the Lebanese who have become Canadian citizens -- about 250,000 of 'em.
Put another way, there are twice as many Canadians in Lebanon as there are Canadians in the army. Are they all in Lebanon for a visit? Hardly.
Most are dual-citizenship Canadians who've chosen to return to the motherland to live as Lebanese -- until trouble strikes and then they want the Canadian government to rescue them, not the Lebanese government.
Under terms of Canada's dual citizenship policy, the country in which people choose to live, or to visit, takes precedence over Canadian law -- which isn't to say we, as a country, shouldn't help people in trouble.
Frankly, any dual-citizenship Canadian who chooses to live in one of the danger areas of the world should not expect Canada to rush to his aid and rescue him and relatives when danger threatens.
Instead, appeal to the government you prefer to live under, rather than the Canadian one.
Now Canada is chartering seven ships and a bunch of aircraft to rescue these citizens, many of whom have chosen not to live in Canada. Does Canada have an obligation to be responsible for them? The cost to taxpayers of removing tens of thousands from Lebanon is enormous.
How many, one wonders, of these people will move back to Lebanon when the crisis is over and security is restored -- assuming it ever will be in Lebanon?
The view that "a Canadian is a Canadian" and all should be treated equally may need revising.
Why should the government be responsible for naturalized citizens who return to live in a dangerous country in which they are also citizens?
Tourists or short-term visitors are in a different category.
Some MPs have suggested Canadians in Lebanon whose principal country of residence is Canada, should be rescued first, since those whose primary home is Lebanon are better able to survive than visitors.
Although Lebanese have settled in Canada for well over a century and are productive citizens, Canada's current policies risk clogging the country with people who shouldn't be here and whom we don't want.
Already, we won't deport terrorist suspects or criminals if there's fear they may be executed or tortured in their birth country. This means virtually no bad guy can be deported to the Middle East.
Canadians of Syrian or Iranian descent should avoid visiting Damascus or Tehran where they're in danger of being grabbed on phony charges -- which in no way is to suggest that the Lebanese Canadians being evacuated have done anything illegal.
We already have a self-described al-Qaida family in Canada, with one member charged with murdering an American soldier in Afghanistan. Many feel this family doesn't deserve to be Canadian, since their allegiance is to an enemy of Canada.
Canada accepts that dual citizens have special rights. But the policy needs fine-tuning. It can be argued -- as some countries do -- that allegiance should be to one country, not two or three.
If someone wants to be a Canadian, that person should give up citizenship in his birth country.
An exception should be made with the U.S. on grounds that we are geographically, traditionally and culturally close.
But for other immigrants, the choice should be one citizenship and one passport.
It's too late now for Lebanon, where 50,000 Canadians outnumber Americans by a two-to-one ratio.
Ludicrous. Change the law before the next crisis!
Convenient Canadians
By PETER WORTHINGTON
What in heaven's name are 50,000 Canadians doing in Lebanon? Surely they can't all be there for a wedding, or a family reunion, or an academic conference, or even as tourists? The estimated 50,000 are roughly 20% of all the Lebanese who have become Canadian citizens -- about 250,000 of 'em.
Put another way, there are twice as many Canadians in Lebanon as there are Canadians in the army. Are they all in Lebanon for a visit? Hardly.
Most are dual-citizenship Canadians who've chosen to return to the motherland to live as Lebanese -- until trouble strikes and then they want the Canadian government to rescue them, not the Lebanese government.
Under terms of Canada's dual citizenship policy, the country in which people choose to live, or to visit, takes precedence over Canadian law -- which isn't to say we, as a country, shouldn't help people in trouble.
Frankly, any dual-citizenship Canadian who chooses to live in one of the danger areas of the world should not expect Canada to rush to his aid and rescue him and relatives when danger threatens.
Instead, appeal to the government you prefer to live under, rather than the Canadian one.
Now Canada is chartering seven ships and a bunch of aircraft to rescue these citizens, many of whom have chosen not to live in Canada. Does Canada have an obligation to be responsible for them? The cost to taxpayers of removing tens of thousands from Lebanon is enormous.
How many, one wonders, of these people will move back to Lebanon when the crisis is over and security is restored -- assuming it ever will be in Lebanon?
The view that "a Canadian is a Canadian" and all should be treated equally may need revising.
Why should the government be responsible for naturalized citizens who return to live in a dangerous country in which they are also citizens?
Tourists or short-term visitors are in a different category.
Some MPs have suggested Canadians in Lebanon whose principal country of residence is Canada, should be rescued first, since those whose primary home is Lebanon are better able to survive than visitors.
Although Lebanese have settled in Canada for well over a century and are productive citizens, Canada's current policies risk clogging the country with people who shouldn't be here and whom we don't want.
Already, we won't deport terrorist suspects or criminals if there's fear they may be executed or tortured in their birth country. This means virtually no bad guy can be deported to the Middle East.
Canadians of Syrian or Iranian descent should avoid visiting Damascus or Tehran where they're in danger of being grabbed on phony charges -- which in no way is to suggest that the Lebanese Canadians being evacuated have done anything illegal.
We already have a self-described al-Qaida family in Canada, with one member charged with murdering an American soldier in Afghanistan. Many feel this family doesn't deserve to be Canadian, since their allegiance is to an enemy of Canada.
Canada accepts that dual citizens have special rights. But the policy needs fine-tuning. It can be argued -- as some countries do -- that allegiance should be to one country, not two or three.
If someone wants to be a Canadian, that person should give up citizenship in his birth country.
An exception should be made with the U.S. on grounds that we are geographically, traditionally and culturally close.
But for other immigrants, the choice should be one citizenship and one passport.
It's too late now for Lebanon, where 50,000 Canadians outnumber Americans by a two-to-one ratio.
Ludicrous. Change the law before the next crisis!
The Americans have been and are busy too.
USS Nashville Joins Lebanon Evacuation Operation
By Jim Garamone American Forces Press Service WASHINGTON, July 20, 2006
The USS Nashville has joined the fleet of ships evacuating U.S. citizens from Lebanon, defense officials said today.
The Nashville, a dock landing ship, arrived in the joint operating area off Beirut yesterday, and landing craft began ferrying refugees from Beirut to the ship. The ship will deliver the citizens to safe haven in Cyprus--about eight hours away by ship--later today, officials said.
DoD officials expect the ship to carry 1,200 evacuees. State Department officials said the operation will continue until all Americans who wish to leave the country have done so. State Department and Defense personnel have evacuated more than 1,600 American citizens from Lebanon since the operation began July 16.
Ships and aircraft transported 1,200 citizens out of Lebanon to Cyprus yesterday. Of these, 161 "special needs" Americans left via choppers, and 1,066 sailed on the Orient Queen. DoD chartered the Greek-owned vessel for the operation.
In addition to the USS Nashville, the Saudi-owned, Panamanian-flagged Rahmah, with a capacity of 1,400 passengers, arrived in the region and will begin ferrying U.S. citizens to Cyprus tomorrow. The Italian ship Vittoria, with a capacity of around 330 passengers, also will begin operations in the next few days.
DoD officials said five more U.S. Navy ships will arrive at the scene in the next few days. The USS Iwo Jima will join the operation July 22. Officials expect to move around 4,000 evacuees tomorrow. More on link
USS Nashville Joins Lebanon Evacuation Operation
By Jim Garamone American Forces Press Service WASHINGTON, July 20, 2006
The USS Nashville has joined the fleet of ships evacuating U.S. citizens from Lebanon, defense officials said today.
The Nashville, a dock landing ship, arrived in the joint operating area off Beirut yesterday, and landing craft began ferrying refugees from Beirut to the ship. The ship will deliver the citizens to safe haven in Cyprus--about eight hours away by ship--later today, officials said.
DoD officials expect the ship to carry 1,200 evacuees. State Department officials said the operation will continue until all Americans who wish to leave the country have done so. State Department and Defense personnel have evacuated more than 1,600 American citizens from Lebanon since the operation began July 16.
Ships and aircraft transported 1,200 citizens out of Lebanon to Cyprus yesterday. Of these, 161 "special needs" Americans left via choppers, and 1,066 sailed on the Orient Queen. DoD chartered the Greek-owned vessel for the operation.
In addition to the USS Nashville, the Saudi-owned, Panamanian-flagged Rahmah, with a capacity of 1,400 passengers, arrived in the region and will begin ferrying U.S. citizens to Cyprus tomorrow. The Italian ship Vittoria, with a capacity of around 330 passengers, also will begin operations in the next few days.
DoD officials said five more U.S. Navy ships will arrive at the scene in the next few days. The USS Iwo Jima will join the operation July 22. Officials expect to move around 4,000 evacuees tomorrow. More on link
From the Israeli point of view:
The innocent bystander myth
By EVELYN GORDON Jul. 19, 2006 Jerusalem Post
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153291950870&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Excerpt from about 1/2 way down
It is the EU's distorted view of the war as being strictly between Israel and Hezbollah, with the Beirut government a mere innocent bystander, that causes it to view the blockade instead as an unfair punishment of an entire country for the acts of a few rogue terrorists.
In reality, Hezbollah's attack was far from a rogue action committed in defiance of the government: The Lebanese government has actively supported it, in both word and deed.
First, of course, Hezbollah remains a member of the government, with seats in the cabinet. Admittedly, it probably launched last week's attack without its coalition partners' knowledge or consent. But in any normal country, a junior coalition member that attacked a neighboring country without its partners' consent would be swiftly disavowed and ousted from the government.
Instead, the Lebanese government has passionately defended Hezbollah's actions on the international stage. At an Arab League meeting on Saturday, for instance, Saudi Arabia's foreign minister, reportedly backed by representatives of Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq, the Palestinian Authority, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, lambasted Hezbollah's assault as "inappropriate and irresponsible." But Lebanese Foreign Minister Fawzi Salloukh, far from agreeing, presented a draft resolution defending the attack.
More on link
The innocent bystander myth
By EVELYN GORDON Jul. 19, 2006 Jerusalem Post
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153291950870&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Excerpt from about 1/2 way down
It is the EU's distorted view of the war as being strictly between Israel and Hezbollah, with the Beirut government a mere innocent bystander, that causes it to view the blockade instead as an unfair punishment of an entire country for the acts of a few rogue terrorists.
In reality, Hezbollah's attack was far from a rogue action committed in defiance of the government: The Lebanese government has actively supported it, in both word and deed.
First, of course, Hezbollah remains a member of the government, with seats in the cabinet. Admittedly, it probably launched last week's attack without its coalition partners' knowledge or consent. But in any normal country, a junior coalition member that attacked a neighboring country without its partners' consent would be swiftly disavowed and ousted from the government.
Instead, the Lebanese government has passionately defended Hezbollah's actions on the international stage. At an Arab League meeting on Saturday, for instance, Saudi Arabia's foreign minister, reportedly backed by representatives of Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq, the Palestinian Authority, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, lambasted Hezbollah's assault as "inappropriate and irresponsible." But Lebanese Foreign Minister Fawzi Salloukh, far from agreeing, presented a draft resolution defending the attack.
More on link
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The Lebanese government argument has absolutely no merit as far as I am concerned.
Lebanon is supposedly a sovereign nation. Yet they permit an element of their society to openly advocate the destruction of another nation, allow them to build up a separate army within their nation, ELECT members of this group to their "government" and then claim total ignorance of any such acts by this group and say "well we don't have the means to take them on so its not our fault and we should not be suffering because of them"
BS!!
I'm sorry but reality hurts. If Lebanon allowed itself to continue with this cancer for the last 2 decades, and pretend everything was hunky dory and look the other way, it HAS TO ACCEPT SOME OF THE RESPONSIBILITY.
So instead of facing a hard reality and trying to deal with it, they just put on blinders and rebuilt buildings and roads that had been destroyed in the civil wars as if they were now living in some fanciful utopia.
I'm sorry folks. Just because you like to believe that you are the " Paris of the Middle East", doesn't make it so.
I know this now a rant, but here is a simple little example.....
Imagine if you will that after the fall of the Soviet Union, there remained a heavily armed, hard core group of radicals who did not give a rats tail about anything. Maybe, they controlled a swath of territory between the borders of Russia proper and Ukraine and had access to weapons from former bases within this area or from "sympathetic" folks who thought they were just a nice bunch of fellows.
Well one day,this group is so hardcore that they decide to fire some ICBM's that happened to go "missing" from the former Soviet arsenal. A couple of American and European cities are now burning cinders. Does anyone think that it would be OK for the new Russian government to now claim that......."Hey its not our fault. We did not have the means to confront them. Please don't retaliate against us Mr. President"
Please. You can't have it both ways.
If Lebanon claims that they have NO control of an element of their society that even happens to hold seats in their government, then I am sorry but, they are NOT a sovereign nation.
Lebanon is supposedly a sovereign nation. Yet they permit an element of their society to openly advocate the destruction of another nation, allow them to build up a separate army within their nation, ELECT members of this group to their "government" and then claim total ignorance of any such acts by this group and say "well we don't have the means to take them on so its not our fault and we should not be suffering because of them"
BS!!
I'm sorry but reality hurts. If Lebanon allowed itself to continue with this cancer for the last 2 decades, and pretend everything was hunky dory and look the other way, it HAS TO ACCEPT SOME OF THE RESPONSIBILITY.
So instead of facing a hard reality and trying to deal with it, they just put on blinders and rebuilt buildings and roads that had been destroyed in the civil wars as if they were now living in some fanciful utopia.
I'm sorry folks. Just because you like to believe that you are the " Paris of the Middle East", doesn't make it so.
I know this now a rant, but here is a simple little example.....
Imagine if you will that after the fall of the Soviet Union, there remained a heavily armed, hard core group of radicals who did not give a rats tail about anything. Maybe, they controlled a swath of territory between the borders of Russia proper and Ukraine and had access to weapons from former bases within this area or from "sympathetic" folks who thought they were just a nice bunch of fellows.
Well one day,this group is so hardcore that they decide to fire some ICBM's that happened to go "missing" from the former Soviet arsenal. A couple of American and European cities are now burning cinders. Does anyone think that it would be OK for the new Russian government to now claim that......."Hey its not our fault. We did not have the means to confront them. Please don't retaliate against us Mr. President"
Please. You can't have it both ways.
If Lebanon claims that they have NO control of an element of their society that even happens to hold seats in their government, then I am sorry but, they are NOT a sovereign nation.
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toddskam said:
I'm not even sure I know what the hell you are trying to say.
BTW, You aren't even Canadian are you? I ask that because only an uninformed foreigner could possibly suggest that the Middle East and the situation in Canada are one in the same.
Are you suggesting that the Bloc Quebecois is the equivalent of Hezbollah?? Would that make Gilles Duceppe Nazrallah's Canadian twin?
I also get the impression that you sitting at a computer not wearing any clothing save for a pair of skidmarked underwear.
Forgive me Bobby and Phil, I didn't know this was some kind of private club for insults. I simply made the analogy that the Bloc in Canada was elected too - on a platform that amounts to being a traitor in other lands, I might add. I guess that hurts you in some way?
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I just don't understand. You seem to be on the side lines and pointing at people telling them what they are doing wrong but you don't tell them how to do it or why to do it that way. Your just one of those people who always points out problems...but never any way to fix it. Anyways your just a troll....go have fun under your bridge!!!
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Oh I'm sorry.
Since most of your posts have the air of a 12 year old talking back to one of his parents, I thought you wanted to be treated like a child.
If you feel that I offended you, you can report me to the moderator. As I am growing really tired of these discussions it doesn't really matter to me. I have just about had enough anyway.
BTW, my impression still stands.
Since most of your posts have the air of a 12 year old talking back to one of his parents, I thought you wanted to be treated like a child.
If you feel that I offended you, you can report me to the moderator. As I am growing really tired of these discussions it doesn't really matter to me. I have just about had enough anyway.
BTW, my impression still stands.
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