10 French Soldiers Killed in Afghanistan Gun Battle

[George Wallace]

In Tomahawk's video at 1:46 one of the french soldiers puts something on his rifle (a grenade perhaps?)
any ideas?

A "Rifle Grenade".

 

[geo]

In Tomahawk's video at 1:46 one of the french soldiers puts something on his rifle (a grenade perhaps?)
any ideas?

A rifle grenade.  We had rifle grenades thru to the phasing out of the FN C1.
Within the CF we currently use the M203 grenade launcher - attaches to the C7 rifle.
Does pert much the same thing...

 

[tomahawk6]

 

[OldSolduer]

To my French Brothers in Arms:

We shall not forget your sacrifice.

 

[tomahawk6]

http://www.france24.com/en/20080821-france-pays-tribute-fallen-troops-france-afghanistan-0&navi=MONDE

But even as France mourns its dead, there were questions about the preparedness of the troops as well as the military response on the ground.

Responding to criticism that the soldiers were too young and inexperienced, French Defence Minister Herve Morin said a professional army is “inevitably” composed of young soldiers.

There has been a growing debate about what actually happened.


An unnamed soldier interviewed in the French paper, Le Monde, said they only had assault rifles and that they ran out of ammunition during the attack.

French media reports also raised the issue of delayed air support. According to the daily, the French troops were under enemy fire “for nearly four hours without reinforcements”.

“When we reached 50 meters from a ridgeline, the firing started. It didn’t stop for six hours. The attackers had elite shooters. They outnumbered us and were waiting for us,” the soldier told the newspaper.

According to the official statement from the French Defense Ministry, nine soldiers were killed within minutes of the firefight starting, and the tenth was killed when his vehicle overturned.

French defense officials are investigating the incident, according to Gen. Elrick Irastorza, Army chief of staff. “Every time we have an incident like this, we have post-experience procedures,” Irastorza told reporters. “We examine what happened and what could have happened.”

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Beautiful ceremony by the looks of the photo's, unfortunately it had to happen at all.

 

[Good2Golf]

Beautiful ceremony by the looks of the photo's, unfortunately it had to happen at all.

Agreed.  Done with class.

 

[tomahawk6]

Video:
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/paras%2Baux%2Binvalides/video/x6j8xq_hommage-aux-soldats-du-8-rpima_news

 

[MarkOttawa]

French general sees overconfidence in Afghan deaths
Reuters, August 25
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080825.wafghanfrance0825/BNStory/Afghanistan/home

Overconfidence was probably a factor in the incident that led to the deaths of 10 French soldiers in an ambush in Afghanistan, the French commander in the region was quoted as saying on Monday.

“In the past two weeks we had largely secured the zone but you have to be frank, we were guilty of overconfidence,” General Michel Stollsteiner told the daily newspaper Le Parisien.

“We were surprised instead of surprising our adversary,” said Gen. Stollsteiner, commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force in the Kabul region since Aug. 5.

Ten soldiers were killed and 21 wounded in the ambush in a rugged mountain region some 60 kilometres from the capital Kabul, the worst French military loss in 25 years and the heaviest allied combat loss in Afghanistan since the 2001 invasion.

French commanders have said they will go through what happened in the ambush to try to draw lessons for the future and President Nicolas Sarkozy has promised the families of the dead soldiers they would be kept fully informed...

Defence Minister Herve Morin and Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner will appear before a parliamentary committee on Tuesday to answer questions and the National Assembly will vote at the end of September on whether to keep French troops in the region.

Mr. Kouchner said the military effort alone would not succeed in bringing stability to the region.

“I am sure ... that the military strategy, which has been indispensable initially, will not be enough,” he told France Inter radio.

“We need what is called ‘Afghanization', that's to say to pass responsibilities, all responsibilities, as quickly as possible to the Afghans.”

Mark
Ottawa

 

[geo]

“We were surprised instead of surprising our adversary,”

Ummm -  that's quite candid.  Wonder if the General figured that out on his own.

We need what is called ‘Afghanization', that's to say to pass responsibilities, all responsibilities, as quickly as possible to the Afghans

Well - No $hit Sherlock... but you can't dump all responsibilities on the Afghans before they are ready.
You do it too quickly and the house of cards becomes shaky and it's structural integrity becomes compromised

 

[daftandbarmy]

Grim update on  ambush of French Army convoy last week in Afghanistan

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4622141.ece

Occasionally, in NI, we used to lose batches of 10 or more but kept going. And we had been fighting the battle for decades by that point. Sometimes there's not much you can do, and it's terrible, but it's something you need to be prepared to accept as a soldier and as a nation if you get involved in these kinds of conflicts.

 

[geo]

Ugh!

Between partisan politics and MsM muckraking, this has the potential to get real messy.

The troops had left their base, they were ambushed, they faught, their guys died, our guys died - we'll do beter next time.

Can we change stories now ???

 

[tomahawk6]

Unfortunately this story continues. Payback of sorts is that 2 of the commanders that led this ambush were killed by ISAF forces.

(CNN) -- A magazine photo spread of Taliban fighters posing in the uniforms of 10 French soldiers killed last month has sparked an angry response.

The latest edition of Paris Match includes photos of the Taliban fighters and their commander, "Farouki," wearing French uniforms, helmets and using French assault rifles and walkie-talkies.

Farouki, aged 30-35, claims in the accompanying story to have led his group in the August 18 ambush which killed 10 French troops and injured a further 21 in the Sarobi District, 40 miles east of Kabul. It was the French army's single highest death toll in 25 years.

He said the area was "our territory" and the attack was a "legitimate" part of its defense.

Farouki said it did not need a lot of planning, with the French soldiers only spotted a short time before the assault.

He said the soldiers had died for "[George W.] Bush's" cause and that if France did not return the rest of its troops home they would all be killed.

Farouki said they would continue fighting till the last man.

French Defense Minister Herve Morin accused the magazine of helping the Taliban.

"Should we be doing the Taliban's promotion for them?" he asked in the French daily newspaper Liberation.

Joel Le Pahun, father of one of the killed soldiers, told the newspaper the pictures were "despicable."

Green MP Daniel Cohn-Bendit called them "voyeurism."

However, Paris Match editor Laurent Valdiguie defended the publication, saying it was "legitimate" given the importance of the story.

The story's author, Eric de Lavarène, said only he and photographer Véronique de Viguerie met the group and he asked his questions via their "fixer."

 

[pfl]

What scum. Wearing the clothes of a dead man? Ughh, despicable. :skull: I wish them a long and torturous death

 

[The Bread Guy]

And, as if that's not enough, there's the interview with the bad boys (Google English translation) saying "we'll kill every one of you Frenchmen here..." sort of things.

Some days, it seems all the MSM want is the scoop of talking to the enemy, without showing the whole picture from our side.... <<shaking of head>>

 

[cameron]

While I support press freedom there are times when common sense, good judgement, good taste and ethics should rule.  I have as little respect for the so-called 'journalists' who published this as I have for the Taliban

 

[tomahawk6]

French folks that are discussing this on another board are unhappy with Paris Match to say the least.One anecdote of the ambush concerned the FFL medic who ran into the beaten zone to try to help the wounded even after being shot multiple times himself.There is also alot of talk about the poor bodyarmor compared to what US troops are wearing.

 

[MarkOttawa]

From an AW&ST blog:
 
French Soldiers Were Assassinated in Afghanistan
Posted by Christina Mackenzie at 9/5/2008 9:48 AM CDT
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a40aa07e4-1d9b-4a5a-ad0b-c47f110f088d

The deaths of nine French soldiers in a Taliban ambush east of Afghanistan's capital, Kabul, on August 18th (the 10th died when his armoured vehicle crashed) is turning into one of the major defense issues in France in recent times. Shock waves continue to resound as rumors are confirmed that four of the nine who died as they lay injured were assassinated by the insurgents and two of the others died of their injuries before help could come.

Rumors that all was not quite as the French defense ministry had described began circling almost as soon as the injured soldiers returned from Afghanistan on August 20th and analyses and articles have appeared daily in the French media from international relations specialists and defense analysts of all kinds, including retired generals.W

hile Afghanistan has not been on most people's radar screens in the past months, questions are now raining down: what is France doing there? Is there an overall policy in Afghanistan? Should the military not be trying to infiltrate the insurgents rather than using noisy vehicles that warn them a mile away of their presence? Why are we not making use of past experience in Algeria? And so on...

Yesterday (September 4) morning, French defense minister Hervé Morin, who was taking part in an open forum on national French radio, was asked directly by a listener  how the soldiers had died. Morin refused to answer saying he would not do so “at the specific request of the families of the soldiers involved.”

In a long article in today's quality daily Le Monde, journalist Jacques Follorou quotes the unease amongst the military over the gendarmerie (militarised police)-led investigation which followed the incident. “We had just lost our mates and then the gendarmes came to see us, just like cops, and asked us for justifications, why we'd done this and not that, they questioned us several times and it was taken badly,” says an officer. He adds that “they wanted to know if the commander had not let the section move too far away from its support base given the lack of intelligence and the absence of air cover.”

Le Monde says it was able to see “certain elements” of the investigation “which tend to corroborate the version given by those injured” as opposed to the official version of the events. The 8th RPIMa parachute regiment was fired on uninterruptedly for five and a half to six hours before coalition reinforcements came: one of the first to die was the radio operator. The soldiers, caught in the crossfire, hid behind rocks.

“Those who died,” one of the injured says, “were those who left their rock before nightfall.” The report evokes the “overlap” of the insurgents and the French troops. As Follorou writes “behind this modest term are hidden acts which haunt every soldier. According to elements transmitted by Predator UAVs, the insurgents came down from the mountain crest and came into contact with the injured French soldiers. Four of them died, according to two military sources, their throats slit [emphasis added].”

The French public has suddenly realised that its military are involved in a war, not just a peace-keeping operation.

H/t to Fred:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/nspector4/Column/?src=hsr#268165

Mark
Ottawa

 

[The Bread Guy]

And the president of the Alumni of St. Cyr (France's equivalent to Canada's Royal Military College) is not impressed, either.....

GoogleEnglish translation

Yes, there is indecency in a certain voyeurism, seeking details more or less sordid for the benefit of people settled far from the fighting. It is disgusting.  Yes, there is indecency by failing to write that these people are murderers....

Original in French

 

[1feral1]

Seeing the use of dead soldiers clothing and weapons openly displayed like this really demonstrates the godless savage mentality of the enemy, and acts like simply prove to me they must be destroyed like some type of rabid animal, no quarter drawn or given.

Payback always tastes sweet.

Step into my line of fire - PLEASE!

Infuriated, disgusted, yet focused.

OWDU