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Premier Ford To Use "Notwithstanding" Against Education Staff- split fromFreedom Convoy Protests

I don't want to see any support staff fired over this. This is not on them. Do you have any idea how often OPS unions over ride the wishes of the outlying members, and order strikes? Especially when the members close to the office in the Golden Horseshoe out vote the rest of the provincial members against our wishes? I'd like to see the strike vote broken down by locals. I'm know for a fact there is a disparity between Toronto and the rest of the province. I've been involved in it. I'll shed no tears for teachers and their union, if they get fined and fired. $5000/day for individuals and $500,000/day for the union.
 
... legislatively imposing four years’ worth of conditions of employment under the threat of charges if they exercise their right to strike? ...
A reminder: others smarter than me have said to people that talk about the power of public sector unions that the employer can often do whatever they want.
 
Don't blame Ford. Blame the union that told him to go fuck the province and their children.
I do blame Ford, when your bargaining in bad faith and then proceed to violate their rights (just because it is legal doesn’t mean it isn’t a violation) just because you don’t like the answer your receiving makes it 100% their fault. Negotiate, to me it doesn’t even look like the government is trying and is instead piling up on the weakest pillars of the education system.

You want to talk about hurting kids? How much do you think the employees will want to do their job or do a good job if they get forced into a terrible contract? Likely not very much at all.

Largely agreed, obviously save for characterizing it as criminal. It’s explicitly legal, which is part of the problem.

I have a huge issue with legislating a ‘collective agreement’. That’s horseshit. Binding arbitration would, in the most extreme case, be appropriate. But legislatively imposing four years’ worth of conditions of employment under the threat of charges if they exercise their right to strike? That’s cowardly. The province does have the authority to determine that these workers are ‘essential workers’, though that would be

The province has NOT approached this in good faith. Workers at lower income levels, who have already seen their pay decrease in real terms by 10% in the past decade, are being told to eat another 4% cut in their purchasing power just in one year, plus whatever subsequent years work out to versus inflation. I’d tell the employer to go fuck itself too. There are a lot of employers looking for people right now if they want to play that game- but the province can’t replace thousands of people quickly.

If the province is truly worried about the kids, it can fairly compensate those who are necessary for the kids’ education. This strike wouldn’t be happening without an insultingly low offer by the province, doubled down with legislative brinksmanship. I hope the province has an idea of its next move when they declare a strike illegal, and 55,000 workers shrug and do it anyway.
I say criminal because I consider any violation of a citizens rights (legal or otherwise) criminal. What Quebec is also doing I see as criminal, just as what JT is doing with firearms I also see as criminal.
 
I say criminal because I consider any violation of a citizens rights (legal or otherwise) criminal. What Quebec is also doing I see as criminal, just as what JT is doing with firearms I also see as criminal.
All good, I’m quibbling. Obviously I’m notoriously legalistic on some stuff.

Something can be wholly legal, and yet wholly wrong. And vice versa.
 
I'll bet if a survey was done, you'd find the majority of taxpayers agree with Ford. Mostly only union members are upset.
 
I do blame Ford, when your bargaining in bad faith and then proceed to violate their rights (just because it is legal doesn’t mean it isn’t a violation) just because you don’t like the answer your receiving makes it 100% their fault. Negotiate, to me it doesn’t even look like the government is trying and is instead piling up on the weakest pillars of the education system.

You want to talk about hurting kids? How much do you think the employees will want to do their job or do a good job if they get forced into a terrible contract? Likely not very much at all.


I say criminal because I consider any violation of a citizens rights (legal or otherwise) criminal. What Quebec is also doing I see as criminal, just as what JT is doing with firearms I also see as criminal.
If they don't perform according to their duties, they get fired. Same as any other employer would do. Of course the union would disagree. The normal deal is to trade a bunch of grievances for the person to keep their jobs.
 
I'll bet if a survey was done, you'd find the majority of taxpayers agree with Ford. Mostly only union members are upset.
That’s literally why we have rights enshrined in our constitution. On some issues, the majority opinion isn’t what truly matters. The Charter acts as a bulwark for, among other things, the rights of a minority against a majority that would oppress them. Unfortunately, in this case, the provincial government is comfortable using a.33 to explicitly and openly trample those rights to try to get their way.

Plenty of us have no dog in this fight, but support the education workers. The government could have chosen to negotiate in good faith and this wouldn’t be necessary.

Tomorrow, a bunch of kids in Ontario won’t go to school because our provincial government won’t collectively bargain faithfully, and instead wants to use one of the most oppressive tools existent in our law. They do this because they know that, with a fresh majority in the legislature, they can essentially do so with legal impunity.

They’re waging this war on people averaging less than $3300 gross pay per month, before taxes. How far does that go for a family in the GTA, Ottawa, and the Golden Horseshoe? What have librarians and early childhood educators done in the past decade to be worth a 14% effective pay cut, once the ‘right now’ cost of this imposed pay rate is added to the impact of inflation in the past ten years?
 
Nnew development: OPSEU, another Ontario union, is encouraging 8000 of its education workers to walk off the job on Friday in solidarity with CUPE.


OPSEU is framing this, correctly, as a show of solidarity for all workers’ collective bargaining rights against the precedent Ford and Lecce want to set with bill 28.


If this ‘catches on’, the stakes are being raised considerably.
 
I place this post in a few threads that I've participated in on this subject.

OK folks. Before we get too crazy, I'm putting my soapbox on the fire. Methinks there's no doubt where I stand on unions, government and educators. Through all the forums and discussions, my whole thought and direction of my posts has been in defence of our most vunerable. That has always been my bottom line. Not the unions, teachers, support workers. They just got in the way. My government recognises that they cannot afford to let the children suffer anymore. That trumps people looking to increase their bottom line or socialist unions throwing their weight around. As an aside, I haven't heard anything from all the professional and trade unions that support this government.

It's about damage to our children being pushed off the stage by self serving demands of the union.


Fin
 
Or our government being willing to harm our children by failing to negotiate and give fair wages to those we entrust to look after them. Pot calling the kettle black. Especially considering in the same time periods the government itself has given themselves much higher pay raises.
 
Especially considering in the same time periods the government itself has given themselves much higher pay raises.

Who? Ontario MPP basic pay has been frozen since 2008. There are games being played with appointments (that come with extra pay) to work around that, but ON MPPs have fallen well behind the ‘75% of a federal MP salary’ they they had previously pegged pay to.
 
Anyone who thinks teachers are over paid should go be a teacher and deal with the little pricks that some of you also raise as your kids.

Not enough money in the world to get me to do that job. If it was up to me that profession would be in constant state of work to rule.

I also never understood why professions turn on each other during a strike. Stop looking at your peers and start looking at your masters, that's where the problem is.
 
Anyone who thinks teachers are over paid should go be a teacher and deal with the little pricks that some of you also raise as your kids.

Teachers and parents aren't raising kids these days, phones and other electronic devices are. That's also like saying if you think military are paid too much, you should join up and see what they deal with. Everyone is free to choose their profession and the salary and conditions that go with it. We aren't assigned jobs, we choose them.
 
Teachers and parents aren't raising kids these days, phones and other electronic devices are. That's also like saying if you think military are paid too much, you should join up and see what they deal with. Everyone is free to choose their profession and the salary and conditions that go with it. We aren't assigned jobs, we choose them.

You're half right. Or maybe 1/3. Parents aren't doing it but teachers and social media sure are. Also everyone's kid is a perfect sweet child, just ask them.

Yup, and until one has done the job they know SFA about what that profession entails. So my previous position stands. That whole profession should work to rule until we sort out kids out.

Couldn't pay me enough to put up with the shitty kids and parents we have now.
 
You're half right. Or maybe 1/3. Parents aren't doing it but teachers and social media sure are. Also everyone's kid is a perfect sweet child, just ask them.

Yup, and until one has done the job they know SFA about what that profession entails. So my previous position stands. That whole profession should work to rule until we sort out kids out.

Couldn't pay me enough to put up with the shitty kids and parents we have now.
These aren't even teachers, it's the ECE assistants, janitors and others who have to put up with the kids at a fraction of the pay and with even less respect.

So when little Johnny isn't potty trained in Grade 1 and needs help, or some ass clown drops a deuce in the urinal, these are the people on cleanup. I'm surprised at how little they get paid TBH.
 
How sympathetic will parents be when they have to miss work, and pay because government workers with huge benefit packages go on strike?

It's one thing to close schools, and demand better pay when times are good, and parents have more flexibility in their finances/work. Right now, we are at a point where most people don't have a whole lot of flexibility left in their finances, so thing may blow up int he faces of the PS unions pretty badly.

Also bear in mind, pretty much all of us here are reasonably well-paid government employees, so we don't necessarily see things the same way that the average Canadian does. We likely don't run in the circles that this action from the Ontario government is aimed at appealing to.
 
Who? Ontario MPP basic pay has been frozen since 2008. There are games being played with appointments (that come with extra pay) to work around that, but ON MPPs have fallen well behind the ‘75% of a federal MP salary’ they they had previously pegged pay to.
On the radio today they said that Doug Fords government gave themselves a $16000 raise. True? Off I go to look

edit; it appears it was a semi-automatic thing having to do with a balanced budget, but maybe not so automatic

 
Rip a page out of the CAF book and have teachers do "secondary duties ".
 
How sympathetic will parents be when they have to miss work, and pay because government workers with huge benefit packages go on strike?
Are you referring to the teachers, or the CUPE folks?

Janitors, etc don't have huge benefit packages.
 
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