6 Jan 2020 U.S. Events (Split from A Deeply Fractured US)

[QV]

I do find it wild the way some judges speak in the states. I agree with you. That caught my eye too.

Then there is the videos coming out of the Rittenhouse trial

These are wild times. Hopefully Peels 9 principles prevail, specifically #7.

 

[Booter]

These are wild times. Hopefully Peels 9 principles prevail, specifically #7.

I know it’s all anecdotal, but I would like for the government to remind itself that it’s for and from the people. My experience is with municipal governments and I’ve been shocked at some of the ways plans are made.

When a new cop doesn’t get it, I’m not shocked- we have to walk them in on how to speak with people, how to be empathetic, etc. I’m just like “new guys”…but when I’m dealing with seasoned municipal politicians- I’m shocked at how quickly we want to fall into authoritarian responses.

Maybe it’s just the spirit of the times across the board. Courts. Politics. Neighbours. Police.

Or- perhaps I’m turning into an old man yelling at clouds.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If the article is accurate

The article is mostly likely accurate. The US has a problem with abuses of the system and plenty of lawyers and civil libertarians write about it every year.

 

[QV]

…but when I’m dealing with seasoned municipal politicians- I’m shocked at how quickly we want to fall into authoritarian responses.

Maybe it’s just the spirit of the times across the board. Courts. Politics. Neighbours. Police.

That is the "progressive" way.

 

[Remius]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-verdict-rittenhouse-1.6253598

Verdict is in.

 

[brihard]

From the article, the QAnon Shamen (it's hard to say that title with a straight face) was looking at 20 years. That doesn't seem proportional to me for what that individual did, but I suppose depending on where you sit on the scale of political progressiveness it could look about right.

America has pretty high maximum sentencing ranges, but you typically don’t see it… Unless it’s a black kid caught with a couple of joints.

Charge inflation would be charges laid in excess of what the facts support. That’s distinct from America’s eyebrow-raising sentence possibilities. The six counts Chansely was charged with all appear supported by the facts. He pled guilty to one. Pretty good deal.

Charging “lesser but included”, or charging closely related offenses is not uncommon, and it allows greater room to manoeuvre in plea bargaining. A plea down to a lesser offense doesn’t mean the more serious charges were unfounded or inappropriate.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Right, but the layperson doesn't know that. And in the Shamen case when the judge states "you are smart" for not exercising his rights to a trial because he was "looking at 20"... that sends a powerful message. The message being: "take the licks the state is giving you because if you challenge us it will be far far worse for you".

More often these days, it's not necessarily what they are doing, it's how they publicly articulate why they did it.

The term of a sentence in US federal cases is not entirely left to the discretion of the judge. Mostly they follow the sentencing guidelines.

Guidelines

www.ussc.gov

There's even an app for it. USSC Guidelines

In the Shaman's case (yes, it's hard to say that with a straight face), his plea agreement discusses how his sentence was calculated according to the guidelines https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/case-multi-defendant/file/1430991/download. For the one count that "the Shaman" (we need a shaman emoji) pled guilty to (the other counts were dropped in the deal), the guideline calculation would have come out to 57 to 71 months but the government's offer of a 3-level reduction for acceptance of responsibility brought it to 41 to 51 months. The government asked for the 51 months, the defence asked for less, the judge gave 41 months.

 

[QV]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-verdict-rittenhouse-1.6253598

Verdict is in.

I expect he will become very rich in the same way the "Covington Kid" did.

 

[kkwd]

The Rittenhouse case has it's own thread. It has nothing to do with January 6th.
Kenosha Shooting

 

[Remius]

I expect he will become very rich in the same way the "Covington Kid" did.

Of course. I’m no legal expert but I did watch the trial and my impression was that he would be found not guilty. The Judge though was all over the map. I expect an appeal.

 

[Remius]

Man who carried Nancy Pelosi's lectern on Jan. 6 pleads guilty

Adam Johnson, a Florida man photographed carrying a lectern belonging to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office at the U.S. Capitol during the Jan. 6 insurrection, pleaded guilty Monday for his part in the riot.

www.foxnews.com

The lectern carrying guy is facing a 6 month in prison term after a plea deal.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Man who carried Nancy Pelosi's lectern on Jan. 6 pleads guilty

Adam Johnson, a Florida man photographed carrying a lectern belonging to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office at the U.S. Capitol during the Jan. 6 insurrection, pleaded guilty Monday for his part in the riot.

www.foxnews.com

The lectern carrying guy is facing a 6 month in prison term after a plea deal.

 

[OceanBonfire]

One option for people who think they're political prisoners, I guess ...

Neumann's criminal complaint, via USA DOJ, paperwork attached.

So… He still thinks America had a fraudulent election, so his cunning plan is to seek asylum in the bastion of transparent democracy that is Belarus?

As political tantrums and self-owns go, this is pretty amazing.

He apparently reached Belarus now:

California man charged in Jan. 6 U.S. Capitol riot flees to Belarus

A California man charged with assaulting police in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol and using a metal barricade as a battering ram has fled the United States and is believed to have taken refuge in Belarus, federal prosecutors said on Friday.

www.reuters.com

 

[kkwd]

He apparently reached Belarus now:

California man charged in Jan. 6 U.S. Capitol riot flees to Belarus

A California man charged with assaulting police in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol and using a metal barricade as a battering ram has fled the United States and is believed to have taken refuge in Belarus, federal prosecutors said on Friday.

www.reuters.com

This sentence from the article seems to be incorrect.

Four people died the day of the riot, and one Capitol police officer died the next day of injuries sustained while defending Congress.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Man who carried Nancy Pelosi's lectern on Jan. 6 pleads guilty

Adam Johnson, a Florida man photographed carrying a lectern belonging to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office at the U.S. Capitol during the Jan. 6 insurrection, pleaded guilty Monday for his part in the riot.

www.foxnews.com

The lectern carrying guy is facing a 6 month in prison term after a plea deal.

Have they figured out why a police force with an annual budget $460 million and foresight something was going to happen that a blind and deaf man wouldn't miss managed to be so unprepared and undermanned?

 

[Remius]

Have they figured out why a police force with an annual budget $460 million and foresight something was going to happen that a blind and deaf man wouldn't miss managed to be so unprepared and undermanned?

Simply not prepared.

New Capitol Police document shows how unprepared they were for Jan. 6 riots

A police planning memo from Jan. 5 missed the mark, declaring there were 'no specific known threats’

www.politico.com

Not unlike our own issues when an armed man gained deep access to our own legislative building.

 

[brihard]

Simply not prepared.

New Capitol Police document shows how unprepared they were for Jan. 6 riots

A police planning memo from Jan. 5 missed the mark, declaring there were 'no specific known threats’

www.politico.com

Not unlike our own issues when an armed man gained deep access to our own legislative building.

That was a very different situation borne of multiple agencies (RCMP, Commons security, Senate security) on a small patch of ground, using different radio frequencies, and 2 out of the 3 not even being armed. A ton was learned there. Two of those organizations amalgamated and are now armed, and have relaxed the third (Parliamentary Protective Service now owns all security on the Hill and are ready for an active shooter). It was also a lone actor with no warning. January 6th was an entirely different strategic, tactical, and intelligence cockup.

 

[Remius]

That was a very different situation borne of multiple agencies (RCMP, Commons security, Senate security) on a small patch of ground, using different radio frequencies, and 2 out of the 3 not even being armed. A ton was learned there. Two of those organizations amalgamated and are now armed, and have relaxed the third (Parliamentary Protective Service now owns all security on the Hill and are ready for an active shooter). It was also a lone actor with no warning. January 6th was an entirely different strategic, tactical, and intelligence cockup.

My point was to highlight the “not prepared”. I know it was two different scenarios. The point is that in both cases our parliamentary security was not adequately prepared for either scenario,

It isn’t abnormal to not be prepared for what might be considered implausible or improbable until it happens. We always prepare for the last failure.

 

[Jarnhamar]

It isn’t abnormal to not be prepared for what might be considered implausible or improbable until it happens. We always prepare for the last failure.

I can't imagine anyone, left wing or right wing, in the US or Canada, thinking something wouldn't have went down on that date in that location. I mean off-duty Capitol Hill police officers even showed up at the event. Millions of Americans were talking about it and posting about it.

For the sake of argument say against all odds the police were just surprised. That's very incompetent. Sure, hammer losers who were stealing lecterns and stuff but shouldn't that enormous level of professional incompetence be punished too? Above and beyond 1 chief resigning?

If the RCMP would have had months warning that angry mobs were threatening to show up on October 22, 2014, I think they would have increased their presence.

 

[Remius]

I can't imagine anyone, left wing or right wing, in the US or Canada, thinking something wouldn't have went down on that date in that location. I mean off-duty Capitol Hill police officers even showed up at the event. Millions of Americans were talking about it and posting about it.

For the sake of argument say against all odds the police were just surprised. That's very incompetent. Sure, hammer losers who were stealing lecterns and stuff but shouldn't that enormous level of professional incompetence be punished too? Above and beyond 1 chief resigning?

If the RCMP would have had months warning that angry mobs were threatening to show up on October 22, 2014, I think they would have increased their presence.

Sure. Incompétence played a part I am sure. I agree. They should have prepared for what Trump supporters were obviously going to do. They didn’t because they assumed it was likely overblown like several still do.