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Our North - SSE Policy Update Megathread

Running upto and over trenches is not moving from a hide position to a firing position and back.
They are advancing, tanking trench and pushing the enemy out or killing them.

Frankly no. Most of the Ukrainian use of tanks has been from static fire positions that roll into, engage from, and roll out of. With limited pushing of single vehicles at a time.

It's their doctrine modified based on their willingness to take and accept risk/losses.

I don’t think it has anything to do with an increased willingness to take risks. It’s been discussed at length, from source after source, that the Ukrainians and Russians are using small groups not because they choose to but because they cannot coordinate above company level. Part of that is because of how they r always structured their command systems. They are also unable to mass, they will only mass at the last minute and in smaller numbers.

Why can't it as part of the all arms combined battle?

The same reason I would push and unsupported M113 across open ground. It is simply not protected enough to do that job. If your going to push armoured vehicles up, unsupported, the they need to be able to take a hit. If they can’t they should be being led in by something that can - ie a tank. If it can’t deliver infantry to take the objective, or have the armour to get them there then what precisely is it doing in that combined arms battle? It is frankly an answer in search of a question

They can reduce ammo storage and add 4 or 5 soldiers. Can be more effective the just driving a tank back and forth over a trench

Uh sure if you can fit four people back here more power to you
 

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If you're going to have a DFS vehicle to support your infantry (in addition to tanks) then why have a completely new chassis like the Booker? Mount a DFS turret on the LAV (something like the Centauro II) to support our LAV Battalions and if we end up getting a tracked IFV like the CV-90 then go with a CV-90120 so you have common chassis across the unit.

As for the Light Battalions I think @KevinB said it well enough:
As you well know, the MGS was a 105mm on a Stryker chassis. It had problems both technically (specifically the autoloader; was expensive to maintain and upgrade; and not worth the effort for the 100 + still in service) and doctrinally which Is why they were withdrawn. The fact that the MGS was in an SBCT and not an IBCT makes little doctrinal difference because an SBCT's battalions, like an IBCT's battalions fights dismounted, It's only difference is its mechanized transport to the forward area.

The question isn't one about mounting a different DFS turret on an updated V-hull Stryker - that's easily done. Even if the MGS didn't work well, there are several existing turrets these days that would have worked and would have left you with a common automotive Stryker chassis even if the new MGS is not used in the SBCT. The V-Hull is more mine proof than the flat bottomed MGS.

One has to question why a tracked vehicle like the Booker was considered a requirement for IBCTs rather than another Stryker MGS. My guess here is that it's because IBCTs fight dismounted and often in rougher terrain than the Stryker could be considered sufficiently maneuverable in. In addition the number of MPFs required far exceed those of the existing MGSs. That means it would probably have been a new full production line of new a MGS which would probably not be much more expensive than the MPF.

It's interesting to note that the M10 is not going into SBCTs. The reasons specified is that the anti-armour capability of those units have been increased and, for those SBCTs assigned to an armored division, would have tanks in the vicinity anyway. My guess is that $$$ have a lot to do with how many M10s are being produced at this time. Not even every IBCT is getting them.

I don't think much of the idea of the M10 as a "training tank." What you pretend to use as another thing in training will, most probably, end up being used that way in combat as well - and the M10 is not a tank. It does make conversion simpler for armoured crewman moving from an M10 unit to an M1 unit, but that's as far as I'd want to go.

As to Canada, IMHO we're not large enough for an M10 type of vehicle because more than anything else, we need tanks first. My greatest fear would be we buy an MPF for our "medium-weight" army and forget about tanks. While I have a lot of time for the Swedish CV line of vehicles I want a tank and IFV we can manufacture and sustain in Canada.

🍻
 
Running upto and over trenches is not moving from a hide position to a firing position and back.
They are advancing, tanking trench and pushing the enemy out or killing them.

It's their doctrine modified based on their willingness to take and accept risk/losses.

Why can't it as part of the all arms combined battle?

They can reduce ammo storage and add 4 or 5 soldiers. Can be more effective the just driving a tank back and forth over a trench
They aren't really taking trenches though. They're doing what's called a guard essentially. Pre established runups that are coordinated and timed from the hide. Think of it as moving from a section hide up to the trenches during a stand to.
 
As to Canada, IMHO we're not large enough for an M10 type of vehicle because more than anything else, we need tanks first. My greatest fear would be we buy an MPF for our "medium-weight" army and forget about tanks. While I have a lot of time for the Swedish CV line of vehicles I want a tank and IFV we can manufacture and sustain in Canada.

🍻
Hopefully the US Army's XM-30 program remains on track. They are targeting Low-Rate Initial Production in 1st Quarter 2028 so I assume that the winner will be selected in the not too distant future. If GDLS wins the competition then perhaps production (or at least assembly and maintenance) in London might be an option.
 
Hopefully the US Army's XM-30 program remains on track. They are targeting Low-Rate Initial Production in 1st Quarter 2028 so I assume that the winner will be selected in the not too distant future. If GDLS wins the competition then perhaps production (or at least assembly and maintenance) in London might be an option.
A two man crew is silly though. Crew commanding through some shit is tough enough, but now you also have to man the gun too and remedy stoppages, reload, etc. There's a reason every modern Western AFV is a three man crew minimum. If these were APCs then maaaybe but with the 50mm gun they expect these things to do some real fighting and dying.
 
A two man crew is silly though. Crew commanding through some shit is tough enough, but now you also have to man the gun too and remedy stoppages, reload, etc. There's a reason every modern Western AFV is a three man crew minimum. If these were APCs then maaaybe but with the 50mm gun they expect these things to do some real fighting and dying.
If a two man crew is silly to you I guess zero must make you want to scream. Both contenders have a crew of two but are to have the capability of being optionally manned. They also both have unmanned turrets. I guess the US Army has less concerns than you about the crew size as two is what they specified.
 
If a two man crew is silly to you I guess zero must make you want to scream. Both contenders have a crew of two but are to have the capability of being optionally manned. They also both have unmanned turrets. I guess the US Army has less concerns than you about the crew size as two is what they specified.
Unmanned makes more sense than a two man crew, at least it's completely remote controlled at that point. To crew command, monitor comms, track the battle, gun, load and rectify stoppages (in an unmanned turret), the poor CC will be run ragged. It's like they want to treat it like an AMPV but with full IFV capabilities. They must have their rationale but in terms of situational awareness and crew effectiveness, not having a gunner to run the weapons system will definitely hinder, not help. People make fun of the RCAC crewmen and LAV coy crews but AFV shit ain't easy, especially when worrying about terrain, busy BG nets, good ground, fire positions, jockey positions, etc.
 
It's their doctrine modified based on their willingness to take and accept risk/losses.

What the Russians are doing in Ukraine doesn't really resemble their pre-war concept of how a war would be fought. They believed that wars would be very mobile with open fronts, and the dominant tactical action would be the meeting engagement. This hasn't materialized; what you see in Ukraine is a static and continuous front with complex trench systems and obstacle networks.

The Russians did have pre-war TTPs for fighting this type of engagement, which they refer to as a position of close contact. Broadly speaking, they are following some of these TTPs but not all of them seem to be workable.

I agree with the observation that they can't coordinate effectively at a higher level than companies, but it's not immediately clear why that should be the case. For all of their other faults, the Russians were usually acknowledged to do a good job of training their officers, but perhaps this is another of Russia's paper tigers. They have also sustained a huge number of officer casualties, so the surviving commanders might not be the best of the best.

I've mentioned elsewhere, as markppcli has here, that they are having trouble massing large volumes of soldiers in any one place. This would limit the ability to launch a larger attack for obvious reasons. It also frustrates the Russians, because the ultimate goal of Russian tactical doctrine is to allow mobile forces to get past the enemy and start moving towards operational objectives.

This is my own speculation, but I think there is an issue with Russian firepower as well. Their artillery does a lot of shooting, but it seems to have difficulty achieving enough mass to actually break through a solid defensive system. This is essential under their TTPs for fighting in positions of close contact - no attack will succeed unless the defenders can be thoroughly neutralized. Russian staff officers use mathematical tools to assist with planning, and in terms of firepower, they will calculate the number of guns and rounds needed to effectively suppress the defenders. I have a simplified version of one of these tools; assuming you want to break into a two-deep trench system on an 800m frontage, you would need at least two Bns of 152mm guns firing at least 48 rounds per gun of preparatory fire, and still more rounds to cover the approach to the objective and the assault itself. We just don't see much evidence of firepower being used on that scale. In fact, most of the times we see Russian artillery in drone footage, it's one or two guns or rocket launchers and not whole batteries.

Considering how many times I have seen a Russian attack fall apart after one or two vehicles hit an AT mine, they also seem to be short of good engineer support.

The Russians seem to have settled on a 1917-style "bite and hold" set of TTPs. Push forward some poorly trained soldiers to breach obstacles and get into the defensive system ("meat attacks," as they are sometimes called), then send forward some armoured vehicles and better-trained troops to exploit any successes. This won't lead to any big gains, but it will slowly capture ground and inflict casualties on the Ukrainians.
 
Unmanned makes more sense than a two man crew, at least it's completely remote controlled at that point. To crew command, monitor comms, track the battle, gun, load and rectify stoppages (in an unmanned turret), the poor CC will be run ragged. It's like they want to treat it like an AMPV but with full IFV capabilities. They must have their rationale but in terms of situational awareness and crew effectiveness, not having a gunner to run the weapons system will definitely hinder, not help. People make fun of the RCAC crewmen and LAV coy crews but AFV shit ain't easy, especially when worrying about terrain, busy BG nets, good ground, fire positions, jockey positions, etc.

No one makes fun of the LAV Crews - I was in a mechanized Bn, and no a lav equipped artillery regiment, for 14 odd years. It’s not an easy job at all.

The XM-30 Lynx is supposed to use AI to help it can the battle field and alert the crew to threats. How the crew commander / gunner is supposed to slew to that threat, engage it, while controlling the driver, staying in formation, and using the comms is beyond me but that’s probably why it’s still in development.
 
Maybe the crew commander can delegate the kill to the AI after confirming the target.
 
No one makes fun of the LAV Crews - I was in a mechanized Bn, and no a lav equipped artillery regiment, for 14 odd years. It’s not an easy job at all.

The XM-30 Lynx is supposed to use AI to help it can the battle field and alert the crew to threats. How the crew commander / gunner is supposed to slew to that threat, engage it, while controlling the driver, staying in formation, and using the comms is beyond me but that’s probably why it’s still in development.
The SA systems being trialed for the XM-30
Competitors makes the LAV turret seem like a blind man is using braille.

The LAV is very limited when buttoned up, and let’s face it in LSCO’s the CC isn’t going to be heads up in the turret looking around for targets - so your limited to vision blocks or the weapon sight. It doesn’t have a CC independent viewer/targeting system like the A2+ Bradley’s or the Abram’s A1+ (or most modern AFV’s…).

I saw one demo that offers a ‘near 3rd person’ view for the CC that takes input from the vehicle sensors and other systems linked on the battlefield (which also gave me some significant EW concerns) it had more in common with a high end video game in that respect.
 
The SA systems being trialed for the XM-30
Competitors makes the LAV turret seem like a blind man is using braille.

The LAV is very limited when buttoned up, and let’s face it in LSCO’s the CC isn’t going to be heads up in the turret looking around for targets - so your limited to vision blocks or the weapon sight. It doesn’t have a CC independent viewer/targeting system like the A2+ Bradley’s or the Abram’s A1+ (or most modern AFV’s…).

I saw one demo that offers a ‘near 3rd person’ view for the CC that takes input from the vehicle sensors and other systems linked on the battlefield (which also gave me some significant EW concerns) it had more in common with a high end video game in that respect.
The LAV seriously needs an FCS and observation upgrade. They're positively archaic by the standards of our allies. In my perfect world we replace most of the LAVs with CV90s anyways and give them to the MO but alas, that's neither here nor there.
 
The SA systems being trialed for the XM-30
Competitors makes the LAV turret seem like a blind man is using braille.

The LAV is very limited when buttoned up, and let’s face it in LSCO’s the CC isn’t going to be heads up in the turret looking around for targets - so your limited to vision blocks or the weapon sight. It doesn’t have a CC independent viewer/targeting system like the A2+ Bradley’s or the Abram’s A1+ (or most modern AFV’s…).

I saw one demo that offers a ‘near 3rd person’ view for the CC that takes input from the vehicle sensors and other systems linked on the battlefield (which also gave me some significant EW concerns) it had more in common with a high end video game in that respect.

Could you take the existing LAVs and swap out the turrets for light RWS systems and turn them into APCs/ACSVs and take the new ACSVs and mount a new 30/35 mm RWS turret on them?
 
Absolutely brutal. There's a reason the 'Regiments' 2 squadron is linked with other tier one units like the hooligans and those guys from Poole. They'd out perform those 1 Para bods any day...........(ducks for cover).

To be fair, the only reason the RAF created their own Infantry unit was because the Army left them to fend for themselves against the Germans during the Battle of Crete in 1941.

And since then, their greatest service has been to provide excellent meme fodder ;)

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