Strike

[Spencer100]

PSSA-CFSA-RCMPSA check their numbers…

CPP: Hold my beer…

Running under a bit

Table 5. State of the superannuation accounts as at March 31 ($ millions)

Balance	Public service (2020)	RCMP (2018)	CAF (2019)
Regular Force
Account balance	91,537	13,123	45,630
Actuarial liability	98,837	14,009	48,057
Actuarial excess (shortfall)	(7,300)	(886)	(2,427)

What is the amount the employer has put in over above?

 

[Good2Golf]

I’m not sure, @dapaterson probably can speak to that far more informed than me, to wit my previous belief the Chretien have absorbed a real surplus from the CFSA fund to the General Ledger to address debt, but turn out it was only an actuarial move…although one can’t help but wonder if getting rid of an actuarial surplus in good times was worth kicking the can of an actuarial shortfall further down the road was a prudent idea…

 

[dapaterson]

The Public sector pensions have both investments and legacy amounts in the public accounts of Canada. Only looking at PSP investments or the public accounts gives an incomplete picture. OSFI reports, as I recall, include both (plus the odd RCA #2, for benefits above the maximum).

However, recent increases in interest rates are generally beneficial to DB plans.

I suspect we are about 60-70 years away from the accounts being zeroed and the costs of the plans being paid exclusively from the investment funds.

Of note, any surplus in the investment funds is addressed per the regulations and legislation; depending on the amount of surplus, there are provisions for the crown to take a contribution holiday and, in some cases, reduce contribution rates.

 

[Good2Golf]

and, in some cases, reduce contribution rates.

 

[lenaitch]

and, in some cases, reduce contribution rates.

I recall that it happened in OMERS, or at least the Toronto PS part of it (I don't know how that pension plan is structured). If I recall correctly, they were either reduced significantly or suspended completely for a period of time such that new hires had never experienced them on their paycheque until they were reinstated. I recall that my Ontario Pension Board deductions were reduced for a period as well.

 

[Brad Sallows]

That's it? Really the way people have talked I would have expected everything to be a lot higher. Only 5 more days off and 8.5% more pay.

Over a working lifetime, 8.5% and 5 days adds up to a lot.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If a union takes its members out on strike without a plan to get more than the employer's initial offer - and the longer the strike, the greater "more" should be - the members are being led by donkeys.

Another scenario, in which the members reject ratification of a deal and go on a few more weeks' strike and still end up with essentially the same deal, means donkeys all around.

 

[brihard]

The Public sector pensions have both investments and legacy amounts in the public accounts of Canada. Only looking at PSP investments or the public accounts gives an incomplete picture. OSFI reports, as I recall, include both (plus the odd RCA #2, for benefits above the maximum).

However, recent increases in interest rates are generally beneficial to DB plans.

I suspect we are about 60-70 years away from the accounts being zeroed and the costs of the plans being paid exclusively from the investment funds.

Of note, any surplus in the investment funds is addressed per the regulations and legislation; depending on the amount of surplus, there are provisions for the crown to take a contribution holiday and, in some cases, reduce contribution rates.

What exactly is RCA? I’ve seen reference to it, and I think I understand it to have something to do with pension benefits above a certain maximum RPP amount?

 

[mariomike]

and, in some cases, reduce contribution rates.

I recall that it happened in OMERS, or at least the Toronto PS part of it (I don't know how that pension plan is structured). If I recall correctly, they were either reduced significantly or suspended completely for a period of time such that new hires had never experienced them on their paycheque until they were reinstated.

I remember that. Had to look up the dates.

1998

Member and employer contribution rates decrease by two percentage points from 1st pay period of 1998, through December 31, 2002.

Member and employer contribution holiday begins pay period including August 1, 1998, through July 31, 1999.

1999

Member and employer contribution holiday extended through to December 31, 2001.

2000

Member and employer contribution holiday extended through to December 31, 2002.

2003

Contribution holiday ends with contributions reinstated, at one-third of full rates, with the first full pay period in 2003.

 

[dapaterson]

What exactly is RCA? I’ve seen reference to it, and I think I understand it to have something to do with pension benefits above a certain maximum RPP amount?

Yes, earnings above the maximum pensionable go to the RCA, another form of retirement savings. Benefits to the individual are the same, but income tax structure of the instrument is different.

For the PS / RCMP / CFSA part I folks, contribution rates are the same on the amounts above the limit, but the GoC contributions are materially more. For now, those amounts are held on the public accounts and not transferred to PSP investments, as far as I know