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Reconstitution

Furniture

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I hate Ontario as much as the next Westerner, but geographically that area is really nice. Meaford must suck along the same lines as Comox, Victoria, Ottawa, etc
Any posting can suck if it's not where you want to be, and the area has nothing that interests you.

People who like the outdoors would likely enjoy a rural posting; people who love a city would likely dislike a rural posting.

What the CAF needs to figure out is a way to get people to where they'd like to be or provide incentive to go where they don't want to be.
 

rmc_wannabe

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Any posting can suck if it's not where you want to be, and the area has nothing that interests you.

People who like the outdoors would likely enjoy a rural posting; people who love a city would likely dislike a rural posting.

What the CAF needs to figure out is a way to get people to where they'd like to be or provide incentive to go where they don't want to be.
Seeing as 3 in 4 Canadians, almost 75 percent of our total population, resides within major urban areas; that should be indicator enough that the folks who enjoy rural pastimes are now fewer and farther between.

The Daily — Canada's large urban centres continue to grow and spread


The hearty farm lads of yore no longer exist as a recruiting pool. Trying to sell the hunting, fishing, and camping benefits of a posting to Petawawa/Shilo are not going to yield results on urbanites who think cottage life in Muskoka is roughing it.

Now if 2 CMBG somehow got a foothold in Durham or Peel Region.... you might see folks willing to take the King's shilling.
 

rmc_wannabe

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You mean like when there was a Reg F Bn of The RCR in London?
And a Bn each of the PPCLI in Calgary and Winnipeg, yes I know the history.

We can blame Chretien and Collenette til we're blue in the face for that folly; but in 2022, if our recruiting base is urban, we cannot continue to exist on the fringe of civilization and expect those urbanites to jump at the chance to live 45 minutes away from the closest Starbucks.
 
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FJAG

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Or 3 RCHA in Winnipeg. And the LdSH and 1 Svc Bn in Calgary.

😥
 

dapaterson

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I have it on the authority of the Base Duty Sgt (Base Duty Sgt for life after a minor misunderstanding between the base commander, the sgt, his personal vehicle, an order to use said vehicle by said base commander, and the base fuel pumps) that the jolly Miller is officially within the base limits, so even if the mess was off limits for our course, the Miller was not.
 

KevinB

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And a Bn each of the PPCLI in Calgary and Winnipeg, yes I know the history.

We can blame Chretien and Collenette til we're blue in the face for that folly; but in 2022, if our recruiting base is urban, we cannot continue to exist on the fringe of civilization and expect those urbanites to jump at the chance to live 45 minutes away from the closest Starbucks.
People generally relocate to urban centers for employment, NOT necessarily because they love being in an urban center.

But, back when the earth was cooling and the CAF created its bases, most families didn’t have a working spouse.
If your spouse is a doctor or lawyer, the opportunities for them are pretty bleak in Wainwright, Petawawa, Gagetown, Cold Lake etc.

Spinning off Calgary and some of the other smaller bases was probably one of the worst decisions that the CAF did for QOL.

Down here bases are generally Div sized, and larger, with most bases being collocated with at least two elements (now merged with the Joint Base system) and create their own economic ecosystem, where most families can find employment (gainful employment) for a professional spouse, even if the base location isn’t exactly a thriving metropolis.
 

btrudy

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Bases move away from cities...

"We miss the cities!"

Bases move closer to cities...

"We can't afford to live here!"

Bases move away from cities...

...

So, Goldilocks, which bases, exactly, are just right?

Posting people to cities and paying them enough when they're posted there that they can live there comfortably.

Stop doing things that are major dissatisfiers, and people won't be dissatisfied. Poor pay is a major dissatisfier. Making them live in shitty places is a major dissatisfier. People aren't being unreasonable if they happen to complain about either of those things. They're acting perfectly rationally if either of those things is what drives them to leave for better employers.

The government is quite capable of making people miserable and driving them to leave their job for a multitude of reasons. Your question is the equivalent of saying "People don't like it when we burn them to death nor when we stab them. Which one is it?!"

Maybe, just maybe, we should stop hurting them, and focus on supporting our personnel instead.
 

Halifax Tar

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Posting people to cities and paying them enough when they're posted there that they can live there comfortably.

Stop doing things that are major dissatisfiers, and people won't be dissatisfied. Poor pay is a major dissatisfier. Making them live in shitty places is a major dissatisfier. People aren't being unreasonable if they happen to complain about either of those things. They're acting perfectly rationally if either of those things is what drives them to leave for better employers.

The government is quite capable of making people miserable and driving them to leave their job for a multitude of reasons. Your question is the equivalent of saying "People don't like it when we burn them to death nor when we stab them. Which one is it?!"

Maybe, just maybe, we should stop hurting them, and focus on supporting our personnel instead.

While agree with your premise, I don't think you understood @Brad Sallows point.

I think he was pointing at a vicious cycle. Or that either way you go you're going upset the apple cart.

But I agree, we should be based in areas that built up enough to provide work and opportunities for our families. With large training areas away from these places for our people to train.
 

KevinB

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While agree with your premise, I don't think you understood @Brad Sallows point.

I think he was pointing at a vicious cycle.

But I agree, we should be based in areas that built up enough to provide work and opportunities for our families. With large training areas away from these places for our people to train.
Ideally large training areas nearby.
Less time and money for travel, and at least for the Army many activities can occur in ‘working hours’ as opposed to being away for multiple days.
 

Halifax Tar

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Ideally large training areas nearby.
Less time and money for travel, and at least for the Army many activities can occur in ‘working hours’ as opposed to being away for multiple days.

I would argue far away that Logistics can practice it's business of moving people and materials around though.
 

Kirkhill

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I would argue far away that Logistics can practice it's business of moving people and materials around though.

Short form: This is Canada.

Too much geography. Too few people. Nothing is cheap. Especially running a nationwide business.

Corollary:

2% buys you 1% in Belgium. To meet the intent of the 2% Euro target we should probably plan on spending 3%.
 

Halifax Tar

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Short form: This is Canada.

Too much geography. Too few people. Nothing is cheap. Especially running a nationwide business.

Corollary:

2% buys you 1% in Belgium. To meet the intent of the 2% Euro target we should probably plan on spending 3%.

Agreed. And if the last few months have shown us anything it's the preeminent effect of Logistics on warfare.

Hence why training your supply train and practicing defending it should be a focal point for any and all exercises.
 

KevinB

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I would argue far away that Logistics can practice it's business of moving people and materials around though.
Understandable.
I’d suggest that once a year a Bde ideally would travel to another Bde’s training area.
That way the entire Bde conducts a movement, and many aspects get exercised.

Down here we have three options for combat training centers:
1) National Training Center, Fort Irwin, Calif.,
2) Joint Multinational Readiness Center at U.S. Army Garrison Hohenfels, Germany, and
3) Joint Readiness Training Center, Fort Polk, La

However for day to day training, having ranges (small arms to combined arms live fire) on the same post makes field unit life much more attractive.
Even more so when it is close to a nearby urban center.
Rural life enjoying folks can usually find properties on one side of a base, while those who want urban life can find it within 30min or less of the main gate.

One of the reasons I like Ft Bragg is while I dislike cities and would never live in Fayetteville, the back side has Southern Pines and some horse country so suburban to fully rural areas are inside 20min.
 
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