Hazing thrives in organizations obsessed with conformity... - CBC Opinion

[Furniture]

Not an East Coast thing.  Crossing the arctic circle is an important event in many navies worldwide.  Joining the "Loyal Order of the Polar Bear" goes back to at least WW2 as the RCN Ceremonial Flagship has a half blue bullring (other half is red).  I expect when the West Coast gets the AOPS you're going to get that tradition cropping up there as well. 

And even if it isn't the original crossing the line, traditions are allowed to evolve.

And its the youngest officer and youngest NCM who paints the bullring IIRC.

My post as a playful poke at the other coast, as someone that sailed Best Coast.

I'm well aware that crossing the Arctic Circle is a recognized maritime tradition around the world, and it has a fairly long history. That said, "crossing the line" or "line crossing" is mostly recognized internationally as crossing the equator. I've only ever heard people that have sailed on the other coast refer to themselves as Shellbacks for crossing the Arctic Circle.

Seriously though, the candy-cane strip is very nice...

 

[FSTO]

My post as a playful poke at the other coast, as someone that sailed Best Coast.

I'm well aware that crossing the Arctic Circle is a recognized maritime tradition around the world, and it has a fairly long history. That said, "crossing the line" or "line crossing" is mostly recognized internationally as crossing the equator. I've only ever heard people that have sailed on the other coast refer to themselves as Shellbacks for crossing the Arctic Circle.

Seriously though, the candy-cane strip is very nice...

Are the bathtub sailors really saying that they are shellbacks because they crossed the Arctic Circle? Pretentious buggers those least coasters are!

 

[MARS]

Seen the "seven days" at sea in 1992 when I was sailing in HMCS Terra Nova, usually you were duct-taped up in the mess and threatened. Fast forward to present day and you are accused of hazing for making sailors go through the crossing the line ceremony. :

My experience was in HMCS Saskatchewan in '91.  I was an OSBN. This was just prior to women being allowed to serve at sea in the RegF.  The 'threat' was sodomy with a marlin spike.  Nothing ever came of it, at least for me, except a lot of a sweating bullets for 7 days and a lot of relief on the 8th day when the Deck Department laughed at us newbies once we realized it wasn't actually going to happen.  But I didn't sleep at all on the 7th night. I just assumed that was the point - the fear factor - and hadn't actually seen or heard of the ritual since.

I'm of the opinion that a voluntary crossing the line ceremony is entirely appropriate.  My first one was not in any way voluntary but it did have the desired effect of bonding the crew together.  But there was bleeding and bruising...I was struck in the head with a sap - there were stiches after the ceremony - as were a bunch of other tadpoles.  I was personally no worse for wear from it, but I obviously still remember it viscerally, and I can easily imagine folks who were there who suffered more than I did and who would harbour feelings opposite my own on the matter even today.  The video footage that was anonymously sent to the CBC in the midst of the Somalia Affair in the mid-90s, when the CAR's own hazing rituals were all over the news - that footage was taken from the TG I was apart of in '91. The ceremony was more brutal than Crossing the Line ceremony I have seen since - again, there were no women in 3 of the 4 ships in the TG at that time.

ERC recalls the situation from a different perspective than I do - an NDHQ perspective , but I believe is was VAdm Murray at the time who, when confronted with the accusation that Crossing the Line was simply just another hazing ritual that needed to be stopped immediately, properly responded that no, it was nothing like what was happening in the CAR and that it deserved to be a ceremony that remained part of the Navy experience. I really think, at that time, we came very close to losing the ability to perform this ceremony ever again.  The ceremony shouldn't be as pointlessly brutal and abusive as my first one, but I do agree that it is a valuable bonding experience, if executed correctly.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Australia

In 1995, a notorious line-crossing ceremony took place on a Royal Australian Navysubmarine, HMAS Onslow. Sailors undergoing the ceremony were physically and verbally abused before being subjected to an act called "sump on the rump", where a dark liquid was daubed over each sailor's anus and genitalia. One sailor was then sexually assaulted with a long stick before all sailors undergoing the ceremony were forced to jump overboard until permitted to climb back aboard the submarine. A videotape of the ceremony was obtained by the Nine Networkand aired on Australian television. The television coverage provoked widespread criticism, especially when the videotape showed some of the submarine's officers watching the entire proceedings from the conning tower.

Navy has some weird traditions.

 

[Stoker]

My experience was in HMCS Saskatchewan in '91.  I was an OSBN. This was just prior to women being allowed to serve at sea in the RegF.  The 'threat' was sodomy with a marlin spike.  Nothing ever came of it, at least for me, except a lot of a sweating bullets for 7 days and a lot of relief on the 8th day when the Deck Department laughed at us newbies once we realized it wasn't actually going to happen.  But I didn't sleep at all on the 7th night. I just assumed that was the point - the fear factor - and hadn't actually seen or heard of the ritual since.

I'm of the opinion that a voluntary crossing the line ceremony is entirely appropriate.  My first one was not in any way voluntary but it did have the desired effect of bonding the crew together.  But there was bleeding and bruising...I was struck in the head with a sap - there were stiches after the ceremony - as were a bunch of other tadpoles.  I was personally no worse for wear from it, but I obviously still remember it viscerally, and I can easily imagine folks who were there who suffered more than I did and who would harbour feelings opposite my own on the matter even today.  The video footage that was anonymously sent to the CBC in the midst of the Somalia Affair in the mid-90s, when the CAR's own hazing rituals were all over the news - that footage was taken from the TG I was apart of in '91. The ceremony was more brutal than Crossing the Line ceremony I have seen since - again, there were no women in 3 of the 4 ships in the TG at that time.

ERC recalls the situation from a different perspective than I do - an NDHQ perspective , but I believe is was VAdm Murray at the time who, when confronted with the accusation that Crossing the Line was simply just another hazing ritual that needed to be stopped immediately, properly responded that no, it was nothing like what was happening in the CAR and that it deserved to be a ceremony that remained part of the Navy experience. I really think, at that time, we came very close to losing the ability to perform this ceremony ever again.  The ceremony shouldn't be as pointlessly brutal and abusive as my first one, but I do agree that it is a valuable bonding experience, if executed correctly.

As I recall we did have to come get you during one crossing the line and you did struggle a bit. I believe I have a picture of that as well.

 

[MARS]

As I recall we did have to come get you during one crossing the line and you did struggle a bit. I believe I have a picture of that as well.

;D  Yeah, because I believed the bullshit from you and the Cox'n  that "yeah, the CO is always a tadpole, no matter how many times they've crossed the line".  Can't believe I fell for that.  Was much more fun the next year when I was King Neptune though...but yeah, you might recall that we had sailors on each trip who refused to participate. I had hoped they would reconsider after watching the ceremony, but we were also careful to ensure that they were in no way ostracised for not participating.

 

[Journeyman]

Navy has some weird traditions.

In keeping with another thread where they're 'bragging' about constantly fighting fires aboard ship..... but can't understand personnel shortages.....  ;D

 

[daftandbarmy]

Navy has some weird traditions.

They're submariners, not Navy

 

[TCM621]

Navy has some weird traditions.

The fact that are Australian was also a factor. I recently learned of another Australian tradition known as a Cracky which involved pouring beer down the crack of a man's ass and into someones mouth. Aussies have been known to be a little less..ahem.. polite than is normal in Canada.

 

[Lumber]

Are the bathtub sailors really saying that they are shellbacks because they crossed the Arctic Circle? Pretentious buggers those least coasters are!

You take that back you training coast nancy!

 

[FSTO]

My experience was in HMCS Saskatchewan in '91.  I was an OSBN. This was just prior to women being allowed to serve at sea in the RegF.  The 'threat' was sodomy with a marlin spike.  Nothing ever came of it, at least for me, except a lot of a sweating bullets for 7 days and a lot of relief on the 8th day when the Deck Department laughed at us newbies once we realized it wasn't actually going to happen.  But I didn't sleep at all on the 7th night. I just assumed that was the point - the fear factor - and hadn't actually seen or heard of the ritual since.

I'm of the opinion that a voluntary crossing the line ceremony is entirely appropriate.  My first one was not in any way voluntary but it did have the desired effect of bonding the crew together.  But there was bleeding and bruising...I was struck in the head with a sap - there were stiches after the ceremony - as were a bunch of other tadpoles.  I was personally no worse for wear from it, but I obviously still remember it viscerally, and I can easily imagine folks who were there who suffered more than I did and who would harbour feelings opposite my own on the matter even today.  The video footage that was anonymously sent to the CBC in the midst of the Somalia Affair in the mid-90s, when the CAR's own hazing rituals were all over the news - that footage was taken from the TG I was apart of in '91. The ceremony was more brutal than Crossing the Line ceremony I have seen since - again, there were no women in 3 of the 4 ships in the TG at that time.

I was in Qu'Appelle in 91 on MARS II and we heard the same thing about the 7th day at sea. We just laughed it off as empty threats.

As for the Crossing the Line Ceremony that got on CBC. Well I was the 2OOW in HMCS YUKON during the time of the video. We were on our way back to Canada from a trip to NZ/AUS. On the way down the Tadpoles outnumbered the Shellbacks by a large measure so the craziness of the bears was quite reduced. There was one particular bear who took quite the relish in harassing the Tadpoles. All in all it was an okay evolution but there was one young fella who hid so well we had to close up the bomb threat organization to find him!!!

On the way back is when things got a little out of hand. The previously mentioned bear was found out to have never crossed the equator before so he became the focus of the retribution. The Hull Techs made the "Blocks" and the unfortunate MS Bosn was placed in them and then he was the subject of much verbal abuse and the pouring of various amounts of food stuffs over his head. And no, none of it was vomit as breathlessly opined by Peter Mansbridge.
When the video surfaced the Navy got ahead of the story by having MARPAC (Snake Davidson I believe), YUKON's Coxn and the "victim" now a PO2 do a Q&A with the media and the entire story died a quick death.

 

[FSTO]

You take that back you training coast nancy!

Why don't you come west to a real ocean NATO Knee!!!

 

[MARS]

I was in Qu'Appelle in 91 on MARS II and we heard the same thing about the 7th day at sea. We just laughed it off as empty threats.

As for the Crossing the Line Ceremony that got on CBC. Well I was the 2OOW in HMCS YUKON during the time of the video.

I was on watch in Provider at the time.  Heard about the blocks, and the poor fella (sea cadet?) who caused the Bomb Threat org to be closed up.  Im not suggesting that it was anything close to what the CBC was reporting on it, but I still think we have lost nothing by taming down that Ceremony and making it voluntary.  Heck, maybe it was voluntary back then...if so, that info was never shared with me and as an Ordinary Seaman, I doubt I would have felt comfortable 'not' participating in it.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I'm in a quandry:

As the 'new guy' on a week long patrol in Injun' country I once had to carry the sh*tbag out of the OP. They made me do it, well, more like a strong suggestion, because I was the new guy.

Should I go to the press, or just publish my story in German sheisse mags and make some money?

 

[Lumber]

Why don't you come west to a real ocean NATO Knee!!!

It's not the size of the ocean, it's the motion in the... Err Uhh.. Ocean... Yea! Like you would know, Rimpac back!  ;D

 

[FSTO]

I was on watch in Provider at the time.  Heard about the blocks, and the poor fella (sea cadet?) who caused the Bomb Threat org to be closed up.  Im not suggesting that it was anything close to what the CBC was reporting on it, but I still think we have lost nothing by taming down that Ceremony and making it voluntary.  Heck, maybe it was voluntary back then...if so, that info was never shared with me and as an Ordinary Seaman, I doubt I would have felt comfortable 'not' participating in it.

I was in KOOTENAY in 95 when we sailed to South America. The Crossing the line ceremony on that trip was really toned down compared to my previous experience.

 

[Furniture]

It's not the size of the ocean, it's the motion in the... Err Uhh.. Ocean... Yea! Like you would know, Rimpac back!  ;D

Having sailed both oceans, it really is about the size...

I guess 7 days at sea isn't a thing out on the least coast I suppose because they never spend that much time at sea. Guam is about 12 days from Pearl which is 5 days at best from Esquimalt. How far is London from Halifax?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

How far is London from Halifax?

Three weeks if you are escorting an Ocean Safari or Reforger convoy! And with only about 3 1/2 to 4 hours of sleep a day.

Oh, wait! You meant if you don't do anything on the way and steam straight like they do in the Yacht Club.  ;D

Go East, Go !!!

 

[FSTO]

Three weeks if you are escorting an Ocean Safari or Reforger convoy! And with only about 3 1/2 to 4 hours of sleep a day.

Oh, wait! You meant if you don't do anything on the way and steam straight like they do in the Yacht Club.  ;D

Go East, Go !!!

I think you're showing your age OGBD! #cruelsea

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I think you're showing your age OGBD! #cruelsea

That's my point.  ;D

But, what's old could be new again faster than you may think:

https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-submarine-activity-increasing-around-uk-and-in-north-atlantic-2018-5