C3 Howitzer Replacement

[daftandbarmy]

Without a doubt we have the finest early 20 the century infantry in the world !

Why not? Our PWT is a reasonable facsmilie of the shooting program implemented throughout the British Empire following our 'schooling' from the enemy during the Boer War

 

[FJAG]

Why not? Our PWT is a reasonable facsmilie of the shooting program implemented throughout the British Empire following our 'schooling' from the enemy during the Boer War

That raises a question. Is the post-Boer War program still the most effective at training riflemen or not?

I've never been in combat but all the videos around show a whole lot of shooting going on that is nothing like I was ever taught on the ranges and on exercise. Is that the new normal created by full auto weapons in everyone's hands? And how does one properly train for that?

 

[markppcli]

I still think scrapping a rifle Coy from a Reg Force BN is a better way to fill Cbt Spt positions than trying to do those with PRes folks.

Or a Bn from each regiment. Which would also man all the schools…

 

[KevinB]

That raises a question. Is the post-Boer War program still the most effective at training riflemen or not?

I've never been in combat but all the videos around show a whole lot of shooting going on that is nothing like I was ever taught on the ranges and on exercise. Is that the new normal created by full auto weapons in everyone's hands? And how does one properly train for that?

Firstly one needs to teach proper marksmanship.
They one needs to get into unknown distance, movers, short exposure targets etc.
A lot more needs to be done in closer with rapid shooting on multiple targets, and in improvised positions, as well as a significantly more standing snap shots.

In short - the system needs a revamp.

 

[daftandbarmy]

That raises a question. Is the post-Boer War program still the most effective at training riflemen or not?

I've never been in combat but all the videos around show a whole lot of shooting going on that is nothing like I was ever taught on the ranges and on exercise. Is that the new normal created by full auto weapons in everyone's hands? And how does one properly train for that?

Don't get me started

 

[GK .Dundas]

Or a Bn from each regiment. Which would also man all the schools…

Oh sure, we could do that but that raises the spectre of fewer company and platoon command positions. I wonder how the various Mafia families..err I mean regimental associations would view that ?

 

[Kirkhill]

Or a Bn from each regiment. Which would also man all the schools…

Or make the regiment a tactical org with two battalions and a support group.

 

[Kirkhill]

Firstly one needs to teach proper marksmanship.
They one needs to get into unknown distance, movers, short exposure targets etc.
A lot more needs to be done in closer with rapid shooting on multiple targets, and in improvised positions, as well as a significantly more standing snap shots.

In short - the system needs a revamp.

The Brits seemed to reverse that with the Ukrainians. They seemed to start the Ukrainians with a group of Figure 11s at point blank range, then reduce the number of targets, then build up the accuracy at range.

They established familiarity and Comfort first and provided self defence capability the first day on the range. Two to Five weeks from civvy Street to the field.

 

[markppcli]

Or make the regiment a tactical org with two battalions and a support group.

Why? We need more HQs like we need holes in the head.

 

[markppcli]

The Brits seemed to reverse that with the Ukrainians. They seemed to start the Ukrainians with a group of Figure 11s at point blank range, then reduce the number of targets, then build up the accuracy at range.

They established familiarity and Comfort first and provided self defence capability the first day on the range. Two to Five weeks from civvy Street to the field.

Source ?

 

[KevinB]

The Brits seemed to reverse that with the Ukrainians. They seemed to start the Ukrainians with a group of Figure 11s at point blank range, then reduce the number of targets, then build up the accuracy at range.

They established familiarity and Comfort first and provided self defence capability the first day on the range. Two to Five weeks from civvy Street to the field.

I’d suggest if that’s true, they are doing it wrong.
There is zero point is doing anything until a soldier can actually group the weapon.

 

[Kirkhill]

My estimation from UK Forces Net Videos

First Ukrainian rotos in UK early summer
Civilians in uniform
Expedient field ranges
Iron sights.
Targets estimated to be 50 to 100 yards from the firing points - definitely closer than 200 m and no where near 600 m.
3x Figure 11s at each firing position

UK training for Ukrainian troops going 'gangbusters', defence minister says

James Heappey told Forces News he believes the British training is having a real impact on the Ukrainian battlefields.

www.forces.net

 

[Kirkhill]

Why? We need more HQs like we need holes in the head.

I'm relegating Battalion Commanders to jumped up Majors

Two Lt Cols to command groups of rifle companies, One Lt Colonel to command group of LAVs with Support Weapons.

Colonel to mix and match assets depending on tasking.

 

[FJAG]

I'm relegating Battalion Commanders to jumped up Majors

Two Lt Cols to command groups of rifle companies, One Lt Colonel to command group of LAVs with Support Weapons.

Colonel to mix and match assets depending on tasking.

???????????

 

[Kirkhill]

???????????

On the road with phone. Will explain when I get home.

 

[markppcli]

I'm relegating Battalion Commanders to jumped up Majors

Two Lt Cols to command groups of rifle companies, One Lt Colonel to command group of LAVs with Support Weapons.

Colonel to mix and match assets depending on tasking.

… to what end ?

Or are we just circling back to previous discussed ideas ?

 

[markppcli]

My estimation from UK Forces Net Videos

First Ukrainian rotos in UK early summer
Civilians in uniform
Expedient field ranges
Iron sights.
Targets estimated to be 50 to 100 yards from the firing points - definitely closer than 200 m and no where near 600 m.
3x Figure 11s at each firing position

UK training for Ukrainian troops going 'gangbusters', defence minister says

James Heappey told Forces News he believes the British training is having a real impact on the Ukrainian battlefields.

www.forces.net

I see nothing but slow deliberate fire there. I assume their shooting an application at each target. Probably shooting for grouping from various positions, getting a test and adjust, and working on base line marksmanship at 100m ranges. So exactly what we do.

 

[markppcli]

???????????

I think… he’s suggesting the regiment be three elements. Each commanded by either a major or a Lt Col, he’s said both, under a Col, and that we have a LAV Bn and two light Bns. Which we’ve all discussed and explained the problems with in different threads.

 

[Kirkhill]

… to what end ?

Or are we just circling back to previous discussed ideas ?

Probly

 

[Kirkhill]

I see nothing but slow deliberate fire there. I assume their shooting an application at each target. Probably shooting for grouping from various positions, getting a test and adjust, and working on base line marksmanship at 100m ranges. So exactly what we do.

Kevin suggested grouping was a priority. My sense was that the first day priority is getting people comfortable with the bang and the recoil and that that was being done close to the targets, or the safe discharge area. There seems to have been a previous firing point at about the 50 m mark.

The range officer also seemed dead chuffed that his students were actually hitting the targets on their second day