Are we that weak?

[Colin Parkinson]

Tribalism is healthy. We don't think in terms of global issues as much as we think about neighbourhoods. In the military it is the regiment. Pierre Trudeau got it wrong and we have been perpetuating the error. GB bailed on the EU as much for tribalism as for any other reason: people wanted to be British.

We replaced tribalism with nationalism which at least allows other people of other ethnic groups to join in. Tribalism really does not do that well.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

It's a valid point, but dead is dead and it's one of the few stats that can't be totally mucked with.

It's totally been "mucked with " to convince folks that crime is going down.
"Homicide is down in our fair city" doesn't mean shit when you're on a respirator the rest of your life, but you're a success stat because you're "not dead"

 

[lenaitch]

My understanding is that attempted murder is difficult to prosecute so most attempted murderers are charged with assault. In these stats, this covers everything from shooting someone and they survive to getting shoved by your asshole neighbour.

StatsCan reports on 'incident' as submitted by the law enforcement agency, not charge laid or ultimate conviction, but Bruce makes a valid point. It is similar to fatal motor vehicle collisions; people now survive what would have been clearly fatal decades ago due in large part to vehicle safety standards, fire service extrication and improved medical intervention.

 

[Jarnhamar]

No.

As others here have expressed, this is about symbolism in context. That is, some Canadians choose purposefully to use an overt symbol (our national flag) in the context of representing some kind of active political expression of their beliefs. That symbolism, in that context, is becoming distasteful for some other Canadians, which is why we're talking about it.

I don't know, maybe. I think at a basic level it's similar. People see a Canadian flag on pick up trucks and get triggered because of the protests. If people see a disproportionate number of a race of people committing crimes maybe that race becomes symbolic with violence to them. Stereo-typing is store-typing.

At first I thought the flag-triggering thing was stupid. In hindsight looking at my own experience the Mohawk warrior flag is absolutely synonymous with bulling to me. High school kids getting lacrosse balls whipped at their heads and backs. Kids getting spit on. Slapped and punched. Teachers too afraid to do anything about it. That said people who weren't physically in Ottawa dealing with this shit at ground zero seem like they're being over dramatic to me.

 

[Jarnhamar]

For those keeping score of Canada's municipal homicide rankings,

Homicide rate by metro area in Canada 2022 | Statista

This statistic shows the homicide rate in Canada in 2022, distinguished by metropolitan areas.

www.statista.com

Canada's Most Dangerous Places 2020 - Macleans.ca

Use this interactive tool to see the full ranking of Canada's most dangerous places. Rank cities by type of crime or see all the statistics for one city.

www.macleans.ca

And yet every time you open the news up Toronto sounds more and more like it's emulating Chicago. Drive-by shootings, club shootings, arena shootings, strangers randomly set on fire.

 

[mariomike]

And yet every time you open the news up Toronto sounds more and more like it's emulating Chicago.

The stats for Canadian cities was per capita.

More people = more crime.

Incidentally, Toronto - not the GTA, just Toronto - has more people than Chicago. That doesn't include out of towners in for business or pleasure, or both.

It is similar to fatal motor vehicle collisions; people now survive what would have been clearly fatal decades ago due in large part to vehicle safety standards, fire service extrication and improved medical intervention.

I read that most of the traffic fatlities in our town are pedestrians.

 

[suffolkowner]

I read that most of the traffic fatlities in our town are pedestrians.

makes sense to me. seems like no one taught them to look both ways when crossing the road

 

[dapaterson]

Or no one taught drivers to come to a complete stop at intersections before turning.

 

[Dana381]

It's both

 

[mariomike]

makes sense to me. seems like no one taught them to look both ways when crossing the road

According to Toronto Public Health, in 67% of cases, pedestrians had the right of way when they were hit by a vehicle.

From 2015, may have changed since then.

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2015/hl/bgrd/backgroundfile-81601.pdf

 

[Weinie]

According to Toronto Public Health, in 67% of cases, pedestrians had the right of way when they were hit by a vehicle.

From 2015, may have changed since then.

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2015/hl/bgrd/backgroundfile-81601.pdf

Unfortunately they (pedestrians) don't have the right of might.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Unfortunately they (pedestrians) don't have the right of might.

But they're becoming increasingly armed.

 

[suffolkowner]

I've had a guy walk into my trailer which I guess he didn't see attached to my truck. With my son had a guy step out into traffic and hold his finger up to stop us then he tried it with a street car and got run over. Not sure about right of way but not smart

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

At first I thought the flag-triggering thing was stupid. In hindsight looking at my own experience the Mohawk warrior flag is absolutely synonymous with bulling to me. High school kids getting lacrosse balls whipped at their heads and backs. Kids getting spit on. Slapped and punched. Teachers too afraid to do anything about it. That said people who weren't physically in Ottawa dealing with this shit at ground zero seem like they're being over dramatic to me.

I met a fellow on Saturday who's a friend of my best friend when we were kids, he's 59, and half native.
He told me some harrowing stories of getting the shit kicked out of him constantly on a reserve growing up. (Story came up because of my Corrections background and that he'd done time for exacting some revenge on a couple of them)
Anyways won't get a card for tax purposes or anything.....hates natives way more then anyone I've met before.

We are just so told over and over it's only us old white male folk who hate like that......so untrue.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It's totally been "mucked with " to convince folks that crime is going down.
"Homicide is down in our fair city" doesn't mean shit when you're on a respirator the rest of your life, but you're a success stat because you're "not dead"

It's a challenge because every jurisdiction tabulates the same thing different ways. In the US homicide and violent crime were trending down till Ferguson. Now shooting upwards. Definitions of crimes also change over time, as sexual assault can mean a whole gambit if things. Or "Children" who happen to be 16-27. Then of course the RCMP way of recording a "gun crime" BB guns, guns in the home but still locked in the safe, etc.

 

[RangerRay]

StatsCan reports on 'incident' as submitted by the law enforcement agency, not charge laid or ultimate conviction, but Bruce makes a valid point. It is similar to fatal motor vehicle collisions; people now survive what would have been clearly fatal decades ago due in large part to vehicle safety standards, fire service extrication and improved medical intervention.

So then for the purposes of these stats, would someone beaten to an inch of their life fall under “assault”? I don’t think it would fall under “homicide”.

 

[lenaitch]

So then for the purposes of these stats, would someone beaten to an inch of their life fall under “assault”? I don’t think it would fall under “homicide”.

Likely not. I believe there is a StatsCan Uniform Crime Reporting code for Attempted Murder and likely separate codes for the various 'levels' of assault, but my working knowledge of UCR is really dated.

 

[YZT580]

We replaced tribalism with nationalism which at least allows other people of other ethnic groups to join in. Tribalism really does not do that well.

Except we haven't replaced it at all, nor can we and maintain our sanity. Your family is the basis of your tribe. Build from there: school, neighbourhood, hockey/football team, church, town county, province and finally nation. When you take all those internal groups out of the nation you end up with a hollow core with no strength, no beliefs and no commitments. Other tribes are welcome to join but they must share some common values.

 

[FJAG]

Incidentally, Toronto - not the GTA, just Toronto - has more people than Chicago. That doesn't include out of towners in for business or pleasure, or both.

True. Chicago has 2.7 million while Toronto has 2.9 million; but the Greater Chicago Metropolitan Area has 9.5 million compared to the GTA's 5.9 million.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

.