2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Halifax Tar]

Now you're deflecting. This is how I know you are letting your negative view of JT cloud your ability to think critically. It doesn't matter what JT did, this is about PP. But that doesn't matter to you does it? Even if there are legitimate negative criticisms of PP, or heaven forbid legitimate praiseworthy actions by JT, your response will always be a mindless "But Trudeau! But Trudeau!".

So are you now trying to deflect a deflection or ricochet a deflection?

I'm not sure of the terminology here...

 

[SeaKingTacco]

So are you now trying to deflect a deflection or ricochet a deflection?

I'm not sure of the terminology here...

You guys have it all wrong.

Trudeau is innocent and this matter is all, somehow, Harper’s fault…

 

[Lumber]

Seriously? How desperate are you to smear PP?

Not desperate at all! My motivation comes not from a distaste for PP or a love for JT, but instead from the allure of the sweet satisfaction of seeing a bunch of sycophants get all riled up.

 

[Lumber]

So are you now trying to deflect a deflection or ricochet a deflection?

I'm not sure of the terminology here...

If he's deflecting, and I'm trying to halt the new trajectory, then I think I'm catching?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Not desperate at all! My motivation comes not from a distaste for PP or a love for JT, but instead from the allure of the sweet satisfaction of seeing a bunch of sycophants get all riled up.

Good God. You are beyond reasoning with.

It is clear to any sentient human with more than a Grade 2 education that PP was satirizing and mocking JT’s well publicized attitude towards oil and gas production in Canada and highlighting what the geopolitical ramifications of that attitude are.

Yet, you persist in the line that JT is a victim.

 

[ArmyRick]

Not desperate at all! My motivation comes not from a distaste for PP or a love for JT, but instead from the allure of the sweet satisfaction of seeing a bunch of sycophants get all riled up.

Of course, according to you, NO ONE is the perfect candidate for Prime Minister, right?

Ever hear its better to have an 80% solution on time rather than 100% solution never?

It means no one is perfect (except @OldSolduer )

 

[Lumber]

Good God. You are beyond reasoning with.

It is clear to any sentient human with more than a Grade 2 education that PP was satirizing and mocking JT’s well publicized attitude towards oil and gas production in Canada and highlighting what the geopolitical ramifications of that attitude are.

Yet, you persist in the line that JT is a victim.

What? How does do you logically come to either of those conclusions.

One, lots of people with greater than grade 2 education would absolutely believe, at first glance, that PP was actually quoting Trudeau.

Two, my line is not that JT is a victim, and never has been. My line is that PP lied on a very public platform, and its starting to seem like PP is very willing to outright lie and fabricate in order to gain points. #whereisMustafa?

And before you all start with the inevitable "but Trudeau! but Trudeau", remember that this isn't about JT, it's about PP, and more importantly, remember that if you have such a problem with JT's lack of ethics, then you should be equally upset about lies from PP.

 

[ArmyRick]

What? How does do you logically come to either of those conclusions.

One, lots of people with greater than grade 2 education would absolutely believe, at first glance, that PP was actually quoting Trudeau.

Two, my line is not that JT is a victim, and never has been. My line is that PP lied on a very public platform, and its starting to seem like PP is very willing to outright lie and fabricate in order to gain points. #whereisMustafa?

And before you all start with the inevitable "but Trudeau! but Trudeau", remember that this isn't about JT, it's about PP, and more importantly, remember that if you have such a problem with JT's lack of ethics, then you should be equally upset about lies from PP.

Yeah sure. Take a look at my previous post. READ it. Not gonna find perfect. Your talking ethics amongst politicians, PP comes out with A or A+.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Not desperate at all! My motivation comes not from a distaste for PP or a love for JT, but instead from the allure of the sweet satisfaction of seeing a bunch of sycophants get all riled up.

So you're a troll ?

If he's deflecting, and I'm trying to halt the new trajectory, then I think I'm catching?

What? How does do you logically come to either of those conclusions.

One, lots of people with greater than grade 2 education would absolutely believe, at first glance, that PP was actually quoting Trudeau.

Two, my line is not that JT is a victim, and never has been. My line is that PP lied on a very public platform, and its starting to seem like PP is very willing to outright lie and fabricate in order to gain points. #whereisMustafa?

And before you all start with the inevitable "but Trudeau! but Trudeau", remember that this isn't about JT, it's about PP, and more importantly, remember that if you have such a problem with JT's lack of ethics, then you should be equally upset about lies from PP.

If you showed an iota of outrage for what JT has done people may value your input more than just tacking it up as biased emotional rage.

 

[Lumber]

So you're a troll ?

Uhh, no, and if you had more than a grade 2 education, it'd be clear that I was satirizing.

So you're a troll ?

If you showed an iota of outrage for what JT has done people may value your input more than just tacking it up as biased emotional rage.

We shouldn't spend out time in echo chambers. Do I like JT? No. Do I have serious issues with his some of his policies, decisions, and leadership? Yes. But if I brought those up, all I would get is a chorus of "hear! hear!"s and learn nothing from it. So, instead, on this forum, I address PP failings (or what I feel are unwarranted criticism of the PM), and I get two things out of it: 1. I learn a lot based on the retorts, including facts and opinions that I wouldn't erstwhile hear (since my immediate circle of friends and coworkers are not PP supporters), and 2. I get to enjoy watching the mental gymnastics of people who can disassociate the failing of one person with those of another... so, yes in that second regard I am trolling but it's only a bonus effect, not my actual intent when I post. I never post stuff just to get a reaction. And I guess there is a third purpose which is to actually try and correct what I see are either flawed or BS arguments, or even outright lies. It's a doubly futile effort, but I learn a lot from those responses as well.

 

[Lumber]

Yeah sure. Take a look at my previous post. READ it. Not gonna find perfect. Your talking ethics amongst politicians, PP comes out with A or A+.

You mean this one?:

Of course, according to you, NO ONE is the perfect candidate for Prime Minister, right?

Ever hear its better to have an 80% solution on time rather than 100% solution never?

It means no one is perfect (except @OldSolduer )

Yes, no on is the perfect candidate.

Yes, of course an 80% solution on-time is better than 100% solution never. One of my mantra's is "a perfectly thought out plan or policy that is either unenforceable or unpaintable is worthless", or something like that.

None of that freaking matters. I don't know why we keep going around this bush: PP lied. Why does what Trudeau or anyone else did matter? Are you implying that we should give him a pass at lying just because we hate Trudeau? What else should we let PP get away with? Seriously, what is your line in the sand in terms of egregious behaviour that would need to be crossed before you stopped and went, "Ok, I don't trust or want PP anymore."

 

[Remius]

One only has to go read the replies to his tweet. Some people believe verbatim what was said. Others explain that it was tongue and cheek and others call PP an outright liar.

Having followed him for while, and him being my MP (I get a Christmas card!) I am not really surprised as this is part of his populist and social media approach. I also get a daily dose of Party emails that follow that same approach.

No one should be shocked by this.

I’ll be more interested when he actually starts articulating HOW he plans to address the things he’s angry at. Right now he’s still coming off as protest vote.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Uhh, no, and if you had more than a grade 2 education, it'd be clear that I was satirizing.

You do realize I am not the one talking about education levels right ? Perhaps you could keep the insults in the right direction, or not perpetuate the stupidity.

Carrying on...

If you're going to post that you're trying to get a reaction from sycophants how else can one interpret that than as being trollish ?

We shouldn't spend out time in echo chambers. Do I like JT? No. Do I have serious issues with his some of his policies, decisions, and leadership? Yes. But if I brought those up, all I would get is a chorus of "hear! hear!"s and learn nothing from it. So, instead, on this forum, I address PP failings (or what I feel are unwarranted criticism of the PM), and I get two things out of it: 1. I learn a lot based on the retorts, including facts and opinions that I wouldn't erstwhile hear (since my immediate circle of friends and coworkers are not PP supporters), and 2. I get to enjoy watching the mental gymnastics of people who can disassociate the failing of one person with those of another... so, yes in that second regard I am trolling but it's only a bonus effect, not my actual intent when I post. I never post stuff just to get a reaction. And I guess there is a third purpose which is to actually try and correct what I see are either flawed or BS arguments, or even outright lies. It's a doubly futile effort, but I learn a lot from those responses as well.

Perhaps you should try approaching from a thoughtful position. But I think you got exactly the response you wanted.

One only has to go read the replies to his tweet. Some people believe verbatim what was said. Others explain that it was tongue and cheek and others call PP an outright liar.

Having followed him for while, and him being my MP (I get a Christmas card!) I am not really surprised as this is part of his populist and social media approach. I also get a daily dose of Party emails that follow that same approach.

No one should be shocked by this.

I’ll be more interested when he actually starts articulating HOW he plans to address the things he’s angry at. Right he’s he’s still coming off as protest vote.

To me the joke is if anyone actually believes he will build LNG terminals. You know how long that process will take in the bureaucratic mess that our country is in ? We cant even buy ourselves mukluks.

I mean I love the idea, but its just empty political talking points.

 

[ArmyRick]

You mean this one?:



Yes, no on is the perfect candidate.

Yes, of course an 80% solution on-time is better than 100% solution never. One of my mantra's is "a perfectly thought out plan or policy that is either unenforceable or unpaintable is worthless", or something like that.

None of that freaking matters. I don't know why we keep going around this bush: PP lied. Why does what Trudeau or anyone else did matter? Are you implying that we should give him a pass at lying just because we hate Trudeau? What else should we let PP get away with? Seriously, what is your line in the sand in terms of egregious behaviour that would need to be crossed before you stopped and went, "Ok, I don't trust or want PP anymore."

Your obsession with discrediting Pierre rivals Justin's ability to do the same to Steve Harper for six years after he won the election.

Not sure which "lie" your all hung up on and obsessed about.

My line in the sand? WHEN Pierre gets elected PM, if he starts breaking promises and blows it hard, I will pull my support for him fast and hard. I DROPPED my support for the conservatives before when they were in power. I won't hesitate to do it again.

You on the other hand are like obsessed with stopping Pierre at all cost level of obsession.

 

[ArmyRick]

One only has to go read the replies to his tweet. Some people believe verbatim what was said. Others explain that it was tongue and cheek and others call PP an outright liar.

Having followed him for while, and him being my MP (I get a Christmas card!) I am not really surprised as this is part of his populist and social media approach. I also get a daily dose of Party emails that follow that same approach.

No one should be shocked by this.

I’ll be more interested when he actually starts articulating HOW he plans to address the things he’s angry at. Right now he’s still coming off as protest vote.

Go onto his FB page and have a damn good look at the people he is visiting and wining over to support his conservative party. They aren't just "fringe minority white old guy trucker types". I assume thats what you mean by "populist" types?

YOU, might want to have a serious look at who is getting behind PP.

 

[Lumber]

You do realize I am not the one talking about education levels right ? Perhaps you could keep the insults in the right direction, or not perpetuate the stupidity.

Carrying on...

Legit sorry, I was playing off of SKT's claim that "any sentient human with more than a Grade 2 education that PP was satirizing and mocking JT" so that was a sarcastic comment that he was suppose to see, and wasn't actually directed at you; I'm sorry.

You on the other hand are like obsessed with stopping Pierre at all cost level of obsession.

This is the only criticism I've brought up about PP in weeks! And the only reason I'm obsessed is because of the reaction I've received. When something clearly wrong is done, and you point it out and say "hey, this is wrong", but instead of people agreeing with you, you get nothing but tangents, deflections, and excuses, then yea, I'm going to double down; that's not obsession... or maybe it is, but it would be obsession with making right right and establishing objective truth, not obsession with attacking PP. Like, @Halifax Tar had the only good response to my post when he said (essentially), "yea, he shouldn't have presented it like that, but JT is definitely guilty of botching this opportunity." Ok, I can't argue with that.

Not sure which "lie" your all hung up on and obsessed about.

The "lie" is his presentation that Trudeau actually said the things he quoted in his tweet. Oh, and then there's Mustafa.

 

[Remius]

Go onto his FB page and have a damn good look at the people he is visiting and wining over to support his conservative party. They aren't just "fringe minority white old guy trucker types". I assume thats what you mean by "populist" types?

YOU, might want to have a serious look at who is getting behind PP.

Re read what I write. I never said populist types. I said populist approach.

 

[ArmyRick]

Re read what I write. I never said populist types. I said populist approach.

and the difference?

 

[Remius]

and the difference?

With what? You made an assumption about something I didn’t say. Are you asking me to explain what a populist approach is?

 

[ArmyRick]

A populist approach (which you really think he is aiming at?) is aimed at winning populist, no?

A populist in terms of being patriotic to Canada is fine BTW. It often gets muddled and mixed up with extremist/racist/misogynist, etc)