Defending Canadian Arctic Sovereignty

[Bill Smy]

Denmark plants a flag on an obscure Arctic island, and boy, do we ever get serious about sovereignty. Have to do it in August because we don‘t have the capability to go north in the late fall, winter, or early spring.

Of course, any intrusion of Canadian territorial sovereignty would have to be in August,though, otherwise we could accuse the enemy of ungentlemanly conduct by not playing by the rules.

A buddy of mine is going on this deployment. Why didn‘t they do this stuff when I was young? Even New Viking serials were run when I was too old to participate.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dcds/dir/dpdt/j7Ex/pages/exNarwhal_e.asp

BTW. I was a staff officer at FMCHQ in 1984 when the govenment ran a government-wide mobilization exercise (Boldstep 84). I recall one scenario where it set out that a Soviet military troopcarrying aircraft had crashed on one of the arctic islands. There were reports that there were survivors, but the enemy‘s intentions could not be determined. Boy what a puzzle. How long to get a commando down from Petawawa to Trenton, then to Winnipeg, then to Edmonton? How would this affect the air movement of troops to Europe, seeing we had such narrow windows on UK and German airfields, etc. Finally, one bright fellow suggested that we employ water bombers from the Alberta government, do a fly-over, drench them. The poor buggers would freeze solid, and we could deal with them the next spring. I don‘t recall the end decisions.

 

[logau]

Another guy I know is going on the ex. He will report all the secrets of the mid night sun.

Signed

Sgt Dan McGrew (see more here) http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/service_r_w/carry_on.html

Carry on!

It‘s easy to fight when everything‘s right,
And you‘re mad with the thrill and the glory;
It‘s easy to cheer when victory‘s near,
And wallow in fields that are gory.
It‘s a different song when everything‘s wrong.
When you‘re feeling infernally mortal;
When it‘s ten against one, and hope there is none,
Buck up, little soldier, and chortle;
Carry on! Carry on!
There isn‘t much punch in your blow.
You‘re glaring and staring and hitting out blind;
You‘re muddy and bloody, but never you mind.
Carry on! Carry on!
You haven‘t the ghost of a show.
It‘s looking like death, but while you‘ve a breath,
Carry on, my son! Carry on!
And so in the strife of the battle of life
It‘s easy to fight when you‘re winning;
It‘s easy to slave, and starve and be brave,
When the dawn of success is beginning.
But the man who can meet despair and defeat
With a cheer, there‘s the man of God‘s choosing;
The man who can fight to Heaven‘s own height
Is the man who can fight when he‘s losing.
Carry on! Carry on!
Things never were looking so black.
But show that you haven‘t a cowardly streak,
And though you‘re unlucky you never are weak.
Carry on! Carry on!
Brace up for another attack.
It‘s looking like ****, but -- you never can tell:
Carry on, old man! Carry on!
There are some who drift out in the deserts of doubt,
And some who in brutishness wallow;
There are others, I know, who in piety go
Because of a Heaven to follow.
But to labour with zest, and to give of your best,
For the sweetness and joy of the giving;
To help folks along with a hand and a song;
Why, there‘s the real sunshine of living.
Carry on! Carry on!
Fight the good fight and true;
Believe in your mission, greet life with a cheer;
There‘s big work to do, and that‘s why you are here.
Carry on! Carry on!
Let the world be better for you;
And at last when you die, let this be your cry:
Carry on, my soul! Carry on!

 

[Bert]

I don't understand the problem.   The infrastructure is already there.

You got FOL Iqaluit, First Air, NWT Air, and Canadian North runs commercial flights north-south practically every day.   You've
got civilian comms up there from SSB radios, microwave backhauls, television braodcast to cable internet matches the
functionality of the South.   Air Baffin, Ken Boreak Air, Canadian North, First Air all run Otter aircraft to all the communities in
the eastern arctic.   Just think of the poor Danish after seeing 10,000 bright orange and yellow twin otters in formation for a
rock assault.    If each aircraft is loaded with the best of Canadian beer (the Danish are picky about good beer), fresh beef,
and large BBQs, then the rock will be ours in a few short hours.   Problem solved.   If you need another problem solved
just ask.

 

[Cpl. Williamson]

Get all Aircraft Availible
Give them All some Means of Carrying Water
and The Rest is History

 

[Arctic Acorn]

I'm gonna take the liberty and inject a few facts on this thread, before it gets silly. Realising your post was in jest, Bert, there are a few points I'd like to mention.

First off, despite a reliance on commercial charters up here to zip our rangers to and fro, they're not gonna get used for soveringty patrols, ever.

Second, 440 (Transport) Squadron in Yellowknife has four (count 'em) four Twin Otter aircraft, and they're rarely all operational (hence the reliance on charters). I've been up here almost a year, and I think they had them all ready to fly ONCE, and they couldn't because they were short on FE's.

Third, as the CF does not have ice-capable vessels. Two (maybe it's three) Canadian Coast guard vessels are cabable of sailing as far north of Hans Island, but they're only in the area during the fall/winter to clear ice for cargo ships/cruise vessels.

Last, the exercise itself is nowhere near Hans Island. It's going to be based out of the Cumberland Peninsula, which is on Baffin Island, not Ellesmere. Hans Island is in the Robeson Channel, close to CFS Alert.

 

[Bert]

Sorry Acorn, I was jesting mostly.

Seriously, the point I was making is that the civilian infra-structure seems more able in many respects and perhaps more responsive
than military transport infra-structure.  Given the need, you could move alot of equipment and personnel to various locations
surprisingly quickly if need be.  You may know of various installations already serviced or maintained by civilian contractors.  The
Rangers would definitely not be able to move around far from the Baffin or island shorelines but that was never the intention anyway.
Perhaps the eastern arctic has more inter-island links than the western side.  Dunno.

The only way to cover that large an area is by passive listening stations, radar, and  sat, air, surface and sub-surface surveillance.
The next step would a rapid deployment force that would involve military and civilian transport infra-structure and comms. 

I never found any information on Hans island and what the real context was for the incident.  Anyone know?

 

[Arctic Acorn]

Hey Bert,

You raised some interesting points.

Civilian air transport infrastructure up here is definitely more capable than the resources provided by 440 Sqn. Simply put, you have many competing air charter companies in the north, all of whom a) have more planes to work with, and b) follow civilian aviation rules, which are not as strict as the CF's. Moving large amounts of equipment is not an easy thing to do here. For one, many of the aircraft used here are pretty small, and moving an organised body of troops and associated equipment would be a pretty complex process. Also, the weather is a huge factor. Being snowed into (or out of) a community for a week or more is not unusual. ALso, as far as I know there is a charter company that owns a Hercules up here, but it's just the one. Available aircraft get a lot smaller after that. Resupplying of the communities is accomplished by ship, though it's done within a small timeframe due to ice limitations, and often require icebreaker support from the Canadian Coast Guard. Even that is seasonal.

As for moving Rangers around, I'll clarify something. Rangers are not a group of people that jet from community to community as a formed body. In fact, every community has a patrol of varying size, supervised by a ranger sergeant (who is a regular ranger that is basically voted into the position). 1 Canadian Ranger Patrol Group (1 CRPG) is the unit that commands these patrols within CFNA. 1 CRPG consists of an HQ, a QM, and Ranger Instructors, who are all combat arms senior NCO's. These instructors will rotate between the communities. While there, they conduct training, pay the rangers, deliver equipment (ammunitions, rations, etc etc), and supervise patrols. It's the cheaper option, and even then flying individual Rangers costs hundreds of thousands of dollars annually.

As for Hans Island, I'll direct you to this link: http://www.naval.ca/article/Heubert/The_Return_of_the_Vikings.html. Dr. Rob Heubert is one of Canada's foremost experts on northern issues. I'd recommend this article he wrote as a good overview. There is a lot of excellent information on the topic online you can access simply by googling it.

Cheers

 

[Garry]

Keep in mind that the rangers are not there to fight- they keep an eye on the activity in their area, and report if something untowards is noticed. As well, they'll provide area expertise and guiding services to regular troops.

Good bunch, the Rangers!

 

[Bert]

Another consideration is who would ever truly invade the North.  Theres not much there.  Likely the events Canada would need to respond to
is a severe environmental event, an invasion of epic proportions, or a small single event like Hans Island.

An invasion of the Canadian North I doubt would be seriously considered by anyone.  That kind of undertaking would require manpower
and equipment that would be hard to hide in the offending country and its transport to the north.  Theres time to deal with that.

An environmental disaster is a plausible scenario and that would require vast amounts of equipment for the civilian population
and thats a scenario for government disaster relief.

The other is a Hans Island like scenario.  Its in the political arena and who cares if 300 Danish marines land on the island.  What are they
going to do other than enjoy BBQs?  At the very worst, and I'm sure its been discussed, is the rapid deployment of a small cold weather
military unit to locations in the North.  If theres a plan for this kind of deployment, then the storage and location of equipment is
allocated and for the deployment of personnel.  Not a large force by any means.  The infra-structure is there is just is a process and a
plan made for this scenario.  Weather not only affects getting there but limits others from moving around too.

But the Hans Island scenario is political and sending Canadian troops may only aggravate a situation solvable by diplomats.  During the
Fish War of 1990s two CF-18s were parked in Iqaluit, Nunavut, over the duration of the diplomatic talks.  It wasn't much but I'm
sure Spain noticed activity in Canadian east coast bases.  It suggests too that future disagreements may be over resources and
challenge Canadian responsiveness.

 

[nULL]

It starts as an island, grows as two. Perhaps the Americans will want some next, or the Russians. As soon as the north becomes passable to freight carrying traffic, it's going to get a hell of a lot more valuable. Not just that, but it's OURS. The only time we are going to have to seriously dispute this is if we do it NOW, as it starts. Why aren't troops going to land on the island and plant our flag/scrawl anti-dane messages on the rocks?

 

[Arctic Acorn]

The only time we are going to have to seriously dispute this is if we do it NOW, as it starts. Why aren't troops going to land on the island and plant our flag/scrawl anti-dane messages on the rocks?

I'll tell you why, Null. We don't have a vessel capable of sailing that far North, and the island is too small to land an aircraft. Using one of our Twin Otters with ice skis isn't going to work, as the ice is too choppy around the island. We can't use a chopper, due to range restraints. Even if we were to sail to the island, the thing is shaped like a huge salad bowl. I don't know how in the hell the Danes got on the top of it.

My guess was mountain goats and sherpas, but my boss disagrees.  ^-^

 

[Bill Smy]

We don't have a vessel, but the Danes do. Tells us something.  :evil:

 

[nULL]

couldn't a vessel be used from DFO, an icebreaker for instance?

 

[Bert]

The problem may be broken into three parts; one, you have to create a surveillance system
to know who is trespassing, two, you need to have the resources (transport, equipment,
and manpower) to do something about it, and the three, is what are you REALLY going to do about
it.  

This is hypothetical but say there were 300 Danish marines transported by ice hardened
destroyer.   What are we going to do?  Fight them a NATO ally?  Sending 1500 Canadian military
personnel in response either by air or sea may not be the best political or tactical thing to do.  
Sovereignty of the North has to be maintained some other way.

 

[Arctic Acorn]

couldn't a vessel be used from DFO, an icebreaker for instance?

DFO doesn't have any vessels capable of that. If you're talking icebreakers, the Canadian Coast Guard is the only game in town.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

They are one in the same department now. Combined a few years ago to save money.

 

[Arctic Acorn]

Just read the departmental backgrounder. Thanks for that!

 

[Guardian]

What's really scary is if, sometime in the future, some other nation challenges our calim to sovereignty over part or all of the Arctic archipelago in an international court, we may lose. Why? Because sovereignty is more than just a set of lines drawn on a map (something that Canadian governments seem to be reluctant to face). Sovereignty implies that both the will and the CAPABILITY to impose our will and our law on our national territory exists; without that capability, we have as much sovereignty over Hans Island, in a practical sense, as we do over Copenhagen. If the government doesn't sort out our ability to defend and patrol the North soon, we may not have a North to protect....

 

[Arctic Acorn]

Bert, on your three points:

1) We have an arctic surveillance satellite in the works. Look up "Polar Episilon" on Google.

2) -Everyone- complains about not having enough resources. Extra transportation assets and the people to run them would be useful. But I don't think that keeping a battalion up here is going to do a lick of good. Being able to move small numbers of assets quickly to communities in the North is a better option. Additionally, if the JSS project ever pans out, we'll have at least some ice-breaking capability. I have gripes with this, but that is a separate rant.

3) As for your last point, it's never going to happen. For one, Denmark doesn't have a ready ability to move a large body of troops.  The vessels that make the trips to Hans Island are coastal patrol vessels, kinda like our MCDV's, but ice-capable (and armed). Moreover, it wouldn't be politically wise or tactically sound for Denmark to do it either. You hit the nail on the head with that point.

As for Guardian, we're not going to lose Canadian territory over a sovereignty dispute. Ever. There is nothing to be scared about. No nation will ever assert any claim over Canadian soil in the North. Canada only has two sovereignty disputes on the books, and one potential one (the NW passage thing). The first is Hans Island. The second is between the US and Canada over a small dispute over the delineation of the maritime Alaska/Yukon border. In both cases, I believe that each party, rather than escalate things, will just 'agree to disagree' and nothing will come of it. No country has a claim to the Canadian Arctic islands, and while we may have not have a lengthy claim of historical use, no other nation out there can touch what we so have. Who would even try and claim them, anyway? It's a non-issue.

Even Hans Island, in all it's giant rock salad bowl glory, is not going to be contested legally at the UN. No one (least of all Denmark, it appears) seems to realise that Hans Island should be a sovereignty dispute between Canada and Greenland, and shouldn't really involve Denmark. Greenland and Denmark currently enjoy an arrangement similar to Canada and Britain. If Denmark really wants to push us on the issue of ownership of Hans Island, Greenland will most likely step in and politely remind Denmark that it's their problem, thank you very much, and nothing will ever come of it.

That being said, the major sovereignty issue with the north in the next 20 years will be over the Northwest passage. The US (and anyone else who has a major shipping interest) consider the NW passage to be an international strait, and of course it isn't. When it opens up enough due to climate change to make it a more economical route than the Panama Canal, then we have issues. Until then, everone please RELAX!!!

 

[Sheerin]

Actually the Danes have control over Greenland's foreign policy.  

The world's largest non-continental island, about 81% ice-capped, Greenland was granted self-government in 1979 by the Danish parliament. The law went into effect the following year. Denmark continues to exercise control of Greenland's foreign affairs.

CIA world fact book http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/gl.html

So yeah, Greenland has absolutely no say over what the Danes do in regards to Hans Island.  

And out of curosity, is there anything in the NATO charter that deals with shooting wars between members?  Not to suggest that we'd start a shooting war over Hans Island....